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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

A few major TV shows missing from the "Shot on RED" section on the main site.

Jon Howe

Jon Howe

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A few major TV shows missing from the "Shot on RED" section on the main site.

Burn Notice (Season 4-on) - USA Network
Alphas - Syfy

Alphas is in it's first season right now, but I'm really digging it. It's worth a look.
 
Jon Howe said:
Burn Notice (Season 4-on) - USA Network
Alphas - Syfy

Alphas is in it's first season right now, but I'm really digging it. It's worth a look.
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Alphas' pilot was shot primarily on Red. The series is shot on Alexa.
 
Chad Lancaster said:
Didn't know Burn Notice was shooting on red, LOVE that show
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This is the first season that's being shot on Red. Last season was XDCam PDW-F800, and all seasons prior to that were 16mm film.
 
Jon Howe said:
Yeah, from what I've read, they're shooting MX. I didn't know about Alexa and Alphas though.
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Alexa is very, very dominant in television this season. There are a number of shows that were either on Red or used Red for their pilots that have moved to the Alexa for series production. Suits (pilot on Red, series on Alexa), Shameless (last season on Red, this season on Alexa), and The Glades (previous season on Red, this season on Alexa) are only a few. There are shows that have moved from other cameras to the Alexa as well, particularly the Genesis/F35, such as Sons of Anarchy and Hawaii Five-O. Personally, I can't fully explain that, but it is clear that Arri made great strides in the television production area this season. Cameramen who shoot television series really took to the combination of direct HD output, a familiar form factor, overall simplicity, wide dynamic range, and images they really like. And while Red offered similar dynamic range and great images, they can't really match the other factors at this point in time (and probably don't want to, but more on that below). Of course, we seem to live in a "camera of the year" world in television, where one camera becomes the hot pilot camera, and that carries over to the next season's series. We saw this with the F35 two years ago and the Alexa this year. This pilot season will likely see the real introduction of the F65, but if Red can get enough Epic X's out there, and perhaps begin production and delivery of Epic S, they could put themselves in a position to re-establish themselves in television series work. Of course, they seem to be doing quite well in features and commericals these days, so I'm not sure how important the television pilot and series market really is for them. But I think a combination of the new products and perhaps a renewed emphasis on simplicity and direct HD recording could put them in the game. I'm just not sure that it's in Red's DNA to support things like direct HD recording and simpler operation.
 
Brad Wilson said:
I can confirm the following TV shows that are not shown on the Shot on RED page are (or were) shot on RED One MX or EPIC (since we supplied the cameras for them):

1. "Burn Notice" - Season 5

2. The Protector - Season 1

3. "The Lying Game" - Season 1

4. "Criminal Minds" - Season 7 (first nationally broadcast show to be shot on RED EPIC™)

5. "Eagleheart" - Seasons 1 & 2

6. "Memphis Beat" - Season 2
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Woah! I'm really excited to hear Criminal Minds has been shot on the Epic. I can't wait to see this upcoming season.
 
I think the future of TV shows will be EPIC or F65 when studios realize that 4K delivery has arrived. Lots of stuff behind the scenes says this is so...

That is unless Arri has a 4K sensor ready to deliver...

Jim
 
Jannard said:
I think the future of TV shows will be EPIC or F65 when studios realize that 4K delivery has arrived. Lots of stuff behind the scenes says this is so...

That is unless Arri has a 4K sensor ready to deliver...

Jim
Click to expand...


I don't disagree, but the pattern in television is that production media is approved that suits the current need, not a possible future need in the next 50 years. Studios and networks just aren't that forward thinking, particularly when most new shows and pilots fail and therefore have no long term shelf life. Television, especially network television, is a "good enough" medium today. There was a time when network contracts with show suppliers specified that a prime time network drama must be shot on 35mm film. That ended a few years ago, and today, the only requirement is HD level video. I think I know what the studios might be telling you, but what they tell you and what they actually wind up doing are often two different things. Of all the studios in town, only Warner Brothers has taken television program archiving seriously, but even at Warners, the vast bulk of this season's production is on Alexa, with one show I know of still on film (The Mentalist) and one on Red (Harry's Law). And even shows shot on HD devices are often being transcoded to and post produced as highly compressed images, such as DNxHD115. And these are major network dramas I'm talking about, not low budget reality shows. Cost, convenience, and simplicity often win out in a "quality/speed/cost" equation. Which is why a number of us have suggested the on-board HD module for Epic in recent weeks. As someone who thinks about the future a lot, I know you feel that ultimately quality and resolution will be major determining factors in camera decisions, but in the world of television, that's just not the current reality. I'm a big believer that Epic brings a lot more to the table than that - size, weight, flexibility, overcrank capabilities, HDRx when needed, and lots of other things. Those things, and the images it produces, are what get it used on a television program.

Studios likely won't "realize that 4K delivery has arrived" until it actually has. I know how you feel about this, but the fact is that there is no 4K broadcast standard (not even close), no 4K delivery mechanism for cable or satellite, no home 4K displays that a "normal" viewer can afford even if there was material to show, and no 4K delivery mechanism for hard goods or streaming. Not to mention highly questionable mass market demand for it. I know - Red Ray - but Red Ray only exists at Red today. When you start delivering units, then these statements might have to be modified. That hasn't happened yet, unless I'm just missing something obvious.
 
i don't think the F65 will find a home on many TV series until their 'lite' codecs are available. at F65 4K, and 1TB per hour of material, this will just add too much data to a typical TV series workflow to be swallowed by the typical TV budget.

the EPIC, on the other hand, does not suffer from this since 7:1 is already an option there.
 
Chris Parker said:
i don't think the F65 will find a home on many TV series until their 'lite' codecs are available. at F65 4K, and 1TB per hour of material, this will just add too much data to a typical TV series workflow to be swallowed by the typical TV budget.

the EPIC, on the other hand, does not suffer from this since 7:1 is already an option there.
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By the time the F65 is released, and particularly by next pilot season, I think you'll find that all of that has been addressed. You're also overlooking the F65's capability of recording directly to HD resolution using the SR Master codec (which is multiresolution capable) internally, which is far more likely to be the approach taken by television productions who already seem to love the simplicity of the Alexa to ProRes approach. Just because a camera is internally capable of 4K, 5K, or 8K for that matter, doesn't mean that the high end television production market - a very specific niche - is going to use that capability or even wants to deal with it. The Alexa's wide deployment in television this season - some of which was at the expense of Red - is evidence of that. The F65 is designed to operate similarly to the Red for feature work when high resolution and RAW recording is useful and desirable, but also similarly to the Alexa for HD work, i.e., television. That's very deliberate, and is something people here don't seem to be noticing.

If you don't think you'll see F65 material - and possibly lots of it - on next spring's pilots, you're mistaken. The wide acceptance of Alexa and its ProRes recordings blindsided a lot of people in the post business, especially those who work with equipment based on Linux. The F65 likely won't have that problem, and will have very wide vendor support from day one. I would advise anyone preparing for next pilot season to be prepared to fully support three formats - ProRes, Redcode, and SR Master. Any or all are very likely to show up on any show at any time, along with various other more consumer type formats. And that's not even considering whatever Canon winds up doing....
 
That Canon announcement could be very intriguing on a lot of fronts. I can't imagine they aren't working on a 4K cine-capable camera, but whether that is their November 3rd announcement is anyone's guess at this point. I still have my money. . . and my heart. . . invested in RED.

Stephen
 
And not just in episodic television.... an onboard HD recorder is the most needed piece missing from the Epic.

The Alexa is great, and the post is easy, like it or not the Canon 5D2 is easy. The Red Raw footage is not easy for the producers booking these jobs. I plan to be shooting on an Epic next year, it is almost a dream camera for me... but the vast majority of my clients want HD images at the end of the shoot day. (sure, there are 20% who love the Red Raw images and know how to work with them well) but for the 80% usable HD straight from the camera is what they want and need.
 
I spoke with the DIT on Burn Notice about a month ago about their work flow. They shoot 4k on 3 Red One MX's, but they finish in 1080. That's the deliverable the network contract requires. Then all that beautiful 4k footage is discarded. Short-sighted? Maybe. But that's just the reality of the TV world right now.
 
In 2010 Terra Nova was on F35 (uncompressed drives) and a locally run post with digitising via HDSDI capture, it has moved to Arri, compressed pro res file based with laptops.

This discussion on the day that Kodak denied rumors they are preparing to file for bankruptcy, their share price fell 57% on Friday and are currently valued at $210m a far cry from the 1997 value of $31B. Reports that they are exploring the sale of their imaging patents.

One thing we can be certain of is that TV dramas will be shot on digital cameras! At the corporate level the long established players should be proactive with customers lest they wish to end up like Kodak.



Mike Brennan
 
S. Um said:
I spoke with the DIT on Burn Notice about a month ago about their work flow. They shoot 4k on 3 Red One MX's, but they finish in 1080. That's the deliverable the network contract requires. Then all that beautiful 4k footage is discarded. Short-sighted? Maybe. But that's just the reality of the TV world right now.
Click to expand...

Burn Notice is basically handled as a tape show for post purposes. The Red files are played out to tape with daily color correction and the tapes are used for finishing, just like the show was handled when it was on film. I don't know of any television show, Red or otherwise, that is finished in anything other than HD resolution regardless of the methodology. Some Warner Bros. shows have been archived using 4K DPX files of the finished cut, but that has always been done after the episode has been aired, and it is only intended as an archival element, not a working master.
 
Michael Brennan said:
In 2010 Terra Nova was on F35 (uncompressed drives) and a locally run post with digitising via HDSDI capture, it has moved to Arri, compressed pro res file based with laptops.
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I happen to know a bit about Terra Nova.

F35 was used on the original pilot. When the series started, all reshoots and subsequent series episodes have used Alexa as the primary camera. Dailies are still handled locally in Gold Coast using a mobile lab unit supplied by Deluxe and staffed by locally based talent. Editorial files are delivered electronically on a daily basis, and ProRes files are sent on drives every few days. Editorial, visual effects, and all final finishing is done in Los Angeles, as it was for the original pilot. The show is conformed directly from the ProRes files and converted to DPX sequences for color grading and visual effects.
 
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