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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

STAGE 2: KEEP your RED ONE and get EPIC-X Stage 2 package

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I've a Stage 2 confirmation too, i have one epic m, and will never sell my first red one for sure.
but this "terms of condition" of stage 2 ... it´s no problem to sign it, but i never got it ... where it is / when will it be sent to stage 2 customer?
 
No offense Sergio, but what are you talking about? This thread pertains only to R1 owners. If you don't already own a R1 then you were never eligible for Stage 2. There will be more and more used MX's available as Stage 3+ sales begin, count on it.

Where did you see Epic-S dropped? I haven't seen any official word like that. Show me a link to what I seem to have missed.

Sergio Perez said:
This sucks for someone wanting in on the Red revolution with a lower budget. With Epic-S being dropped from the official roadmap, the used Red One MX was the other only possible path, at least for those like me that doesn't want to compromise on the sensor size. 2/3rds Scarlet is just not for me...

I can see were the Red team is coming from with this, but I would also like to remind the Red team that some of us just couldn't afford a Red One at the beginning, and not an Epic X right now (30K + for a ready to shoot pachage). Some of us have been loyal and supportive to the red movement since the beginning, and purchasing a used Red One MX is probably the way many of us on this side of the barricade are trying to go to join the Red revolution...
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Really?

Mark Toia said:
UUuuuuuum... weird feeling swelling in my tummy....

Since I'm a EPIC junky now... I did sell my RED ONE MXs... Was I not allowed too???? Was there a rule to which i had to keep my camera's forever even though I would never ever use them again?... How does this work. Have I missed sopmething major here ????

Sorry, But I'm super lost here guys? I don't understand... don't mean to sound like some naive idiot... but I need to know if I have done something wrong without knowing.

I didnt know that I was not allowed to ever sell my old fully paid for up to date cameras and loose my place...
I have not done anything unto-wart or illegal have I.. Ive not sold my cameras for a 1$...

I'm feeling super sick here... due to not understanding correctly. what do I do????
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Jarred Land said:
with all due respect.... That is complete bullshit.

Everyone signed this..... read #3.

1315074296.jpg
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John C Picking Jr said:
Really?
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Yep

This is exactly how I understood it at the time of deposit.

Seeing all the people selling their R1s in the meantime while still staying stage2 has been... strange, because I thought it was pretty clear.

Of course all our kit was ok with RED and paind and all that, but RED gave us an offer with conditions which we were free to accept or not...

Some of us accepted to get stuff within our budgets and as a mutual "thank you so far"

Of course it took an additional year before delivery and I can understand why people adopt to that.

But that hasn't changed the agreement between us and RED AFAIK.

And I think Jim warned about this...


SRY

But this really makes stuff a bit more understandable...
 
John Redfern said:
Surely if you wanted not to keep the R1, stage 3 was the better deal financially.
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I think that's the point. If you took the risk buying stage 2 and selling your Red One immediately, then that would have been a better deal than waiting for stage-3. At the time of the announcement your Red One body would have still fetched a premium and you still get a $ discount on stage-2 goodies as well. When the deal was first announced I put up a post asking if this would be possible and Jim responded directly and said that was not the deal. You could sell the R1 after delivery. It was clear they didn't want people abusing the offer, it was really for people who couldn't part with their R1. Fair enough, I decided to go for stage -3 as Im broke...lol

While there may be some people who genuinely misunderstood or didn't read the small print, the vast majority sold knowingly to make a bit more money than by playing by the rules. Jim even posted recently in the For Sale forum that he didn't like what was going on. You could see this coming a mile off.

Have to say, how would Red know if someone has sold their R1? Im sure not everyone advertised on these boards. If you did, then that's not so clever!
 
Well... you do have an Epic M. You can buy all the Epic X cameras you want in a couple of months. You made money with your Red One and then recouped most of your capital. Take a deep breath. You'll be okay.

Mark Toia said:
Read it 5 mins ago ... , I so Completely f@#%@d up without thinking... I feel so sick, I'm about to chuck!!!!!!! ... Literally.....
no malice intended.. just forgetful and dumb...

You wont be hearing from me much anymore... I'm lost...
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Mark Toia said:
Read it 5 mins ago ... , I so Completely f@#%@d up without thinking... I feel so sick, I'm about to chuck!!!!!!! ... Literally.....
no malice intended.. just forgetful and dumb...

You wont be hearing from me much anymore... I'm lost...
Click to expand...

Seems like there's two ways for Red to play this: either it's actually about attitude, in which case Red has complete discretion in who does/does not fall in the "bad" category, or it's about the following the exact language or term number three, in which case anyone who has actually transferred ownership has to wait for a full-price Epic-X.

Personally, I think it would be unfortunate for folks like Mark, who are unquestionably genuine Red supporters, to get penalized. I can understand wanting to punish someone who actually lied about transfer, and yes Mark made a mistake, but there's a meaningful difference between the two.

Is this about the letter of the law or the spirit of the law? The former runs the risk of penalizing good people, the latter runs the risk of feeling arbitrary. This whole thing feels like dangerous territory...

- Tim
 
Jean Pierre Schoch said:
If there is a rule, penalty should be applied to everyone that broke it... That's a fair rule for The community
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So "Bob" who leased his camera after Jim said not to, but hasn't actually transferred ownership yet, should qualify for Stage 2, but "Mark" who was confused about terms and sold his camera should be disqualified?

In this case, the guy with the bad attitude gets a discount, and the guy with a good attitude gets penalized. Fair? Technically, by the language of term 3, you can argue that it is. Whether it's actually fair is another question, IMO...

- Tim
 
I never sell my cameras.. I still have all of them: Sony 170, then Panasonic HVX 200.. Then REDONE.. Waiting for Epic stage 2.. I thought of selling Sony and Panasonic a couple of times, but I did not..
As about REDONE I never thought of selling it.. Why? Because it was the turn point for my company... And I believe it was the turn point of the whole industry also.. Jim once pointed that Epic will change the industry, but REDONE will remain special for collectors..
There is also something else regarding REDONE, beside the camera itself.. It's RED's philosophy which helped me and inspired me to work harder.. So for me it's not just a camera.. It's much more.. In the future I may even consider selling Epic (probably not) but not REDONE..
 
I don't mind if RED is handling this on a case-to-case level behind the scenes.

Actually nothing would make me happier.
Of course this is a hard hit for very many individuals.

OTOH I have a hard time understanding where the perception that one could sell ones R1 and keep the Stage 2 position comes from.
I have seen brokers argue that.
But never seen anything to that regard from RED.
But then again, I amnot THAT much on these forums, and there's a lot I don't read...
 
I'm with Gunleik; I respect if Red decides to evaluate on a case-by-case basis. Personally, I'm hopeful for Mark, even if he did make a mistake.

And for the record, I'm not suggesting that everyone leasing their camera out should be penalized either - it seems like the question of "attitude" hinges on whether deals were done after understanding Jim's position.
 
Tim Morten said:
So "Bob" who leased his camera after Jim said not to, but hasn't actually transferred ownership yet, should qualify for Stage 2, but "Mark" who was confused about terms and sold his camera should be disqualified?

In this case, the guy with the bad attitude gets a discount, and the guy with a good attitude gets penalized. Fair? Technically, by the language of term 3, you can argue that it is. Whether it's actually fair is another question, IMO...

- Tim
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You Are comparing ONE case that is not clear, with one that should be. You should compare one that respect the rules with one that doesn't.
Then, i am not talking about mark in particular, i am talking in general and if you tell me that Someone just confused, is difficult to believe.
 
EPIC X

EPIC X

Hi,

So what would be the verification process to make sure that the stage 2 guy has its R1 and not sold it....

Harcharan
 
Tim Morten said:
it seems like the question of "attitude" hinges on whether deals were done after understanding Jim's position.
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Guess I am a bit simpler... Jims/REDs position was clearly stated when we paid the deposit.

Thing is that it took another year to finnish the Epic-x since then and the impression that this was ok has been rather aggressively promoted by members here, without interruption.
But as far as I can remember there wasn't a clause saying that this agreement is only valid either way if the Epic is delivered within X months.
For which I am happy.
As that would also have nullified REDs commitment to me...

That said, I am allways a fan of individual concerns...
There are a difference between those speculating in this to finance their Epic, whil still taking up a new potential customer for RED, as opposed to those just seeing their R1 as a doorstop, abd without further ado makes it into a usefull piece of gear for someone else.

Sounds not too different
The attitude difference is quite big...
 
Sergio Perez said:
This sucks for someone wanting in on the Red revolution with a lower budget. With Epic-S being dropped from the official roadmap, the used Red One MX was the other only possible path, at least for those like me that doesn't want to compromise on the sensor size. 2/3rds Scarlet is just not for me...

I can see were the Red team is coming from with this, but I would also like to remind the Red team that some of us just couldn't afford a Red One at the beginning, and not an Epic X right now (30K + for a ready to shoot pachage). Some of us have been loyal and supportive to the red movement since the beginning, and purchasing a used Red One MX is probably the way many of us on this side of the barricade are trying to go to join the Red revolution...
Click to expand...

Jarred clearly stated that after getting the Epic-X, it is okay to sell the executed RED ONE.
 
Harcharan Singh said:
Hi,

So what would be the verification process to make sure that the stage 2 guy has its R1 and not sold it....

Harcharan
Click to expand...
Take a picture while holding the R1 and today's newspaper to show the date and headline???
 
Kaku Ito said:
Jarred clearly stated that after getting the Epic-X, it is okay to sell the executed RED ONE.
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Wouldn't be surprised if there was som further advantages down the road, though...

The biggest of course having access to images with different charreacterristics.
Epic. R1 M. R1 MX. Like different filmstocks...

But I have allways imagined my kids running round making shorts on a r1 one day...
 
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