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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic STREAK FLARING

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I have a few very experience dop's in sydney that find it a problem and will think twice in using the epic. And that no go good for anyone.

Deanan knows about this issue, so let's wait and see what he thinks.
 
Just read your quote again...

As you can see I have had this same flash or flare of light on 35mm... I bet if I dug through my archives even more I find alot of it in 35mm as I remember seeing it in grades many times over the years.. so how is it a RED chip problem? and not a internal reflection or light bounce issue that more than one type of camera gets.


Regardless... if it's annoying you that much.. it's best for you to use the RED one then as you say.

Adam Eden said:
Mark i am sorry but you are wrong.

This has nothing to do with lenses. It is a problem with the sensor. I have spoken to a few ACS cinematographers in Australia that agree with me.

This is a real problem as i cannot use the camera in the Circus scenario shoot, and i will now have to reshoot the entire sequence on the RED ONE MX.

For me this is far from being "Put to bed"
Click to expand...
 
Ok. Obviously you are making a big deal out of this now. Speak to david wakely ACS and let him explain to you the issue.
 
no no no no... no big deal.. Your reading my replies incorrectly and may think Im being defensive... complete opposite.
It's ok.. please calm down. having a ACS title does not make me rate a DP's technical experience. So don't think you have to wave a prefix around.

I know more ACS and ASC members personally than you may think, with several of them winning Academy awards and now shooting EPIC's. They are not about to dump the EPIC? for something they can cut with matts..

All is ok. please don't think anymore of this as just simple conversation... nothing more. If you have a real issue with the camera and think its a real true technical flaw with the chip and not light bounce and so does your friend.. then what you have to done to alert RED of the problem is the best way to go.

Have a nice night Adam. sorry to stress you.:smilewinkgrin: It's ok. I'm on your side. Anything to make the camera better :)
 
Mark i don't mean to push my point, but you seem to totally disregard what I am saying to you.

This problem can not be cut with a matt if you are panning on tilting the camera to follow the action, especially when I am flying my Steadicam.

I am not waving a prefix around. If someone has earned their stripes and carries a prefix then I will use it when referring to them.

Again my problem is that high level cinematographers have noticed this problem, which in turn costs me money in camera rental and gives more fuel to the Alexa camp which I am not a part of.

When issues cost my company money, then I address them.

This issue is not personal, its business, and I don't hold any grudges with you or anyone one this forum.

And I am sorry to disagree with you again, but to earn an ACS or ASC title does mean you have a lot of experience and you would have to be pretty damn good cinematographer to get this title as these cannot be bought in a vending machine.

Have a great night also mate.
 
Well, I just did a test.
I was right about the shiny rubber part in front of the OLPF glass - I can eliminate (or greatly reduce) the flare by putting matte black tape on that part. I'll post before and after pics soon.
I think Red have some tweaking to do...
Best not to put reflective surfaces between lens and sensor.

Toia - maybe you can put little mirrors in there over the rubber to enhance it!!!

attachment.php

EDIT: PIC ATTACHED with yellow tape showing area that I covered it matte black tape... Before and after pics in another post below.
 

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Mark Toia said:
Here you go, I dug through some archives...

Lets put this to bed... It all comes down to some lenses. reflecting internally and bouncing that light onto the film surface or chip plane.
This is not a RED problem, I'ts just simple old internal light bounce and some camera and lens combinations get it more than others.
To avoid it... use your matt boxes more efficiently. :) to keep it (like I do) then don't worry about it.

flare.jpg
Click to expand...

I'm sorry Mark, but what the two top pictures show are specular highlights flaring. In one case, it's the roof of the car. In the other, it's the sun. What the heck is causing the flare on his hand? Those first two pictures are not analogous to the third.
 
Adam Eden said:
Mark i am sorry but you are wrong.

This has nothing to do with lenses. It is a problem with the sensor. I have spoken to a few ACS cinematographers in Australia that agree with me.

This is a real problem as i cannot use the camera in the Circus scenario shoot, and i will now have to reshoot the entire sequence on the RED ONE MX.

For me this is far from being "Put to bed"
Click to expand...

I agree, and Mark's examples show three different flare types - some clearly normal lens flare and others this weird new "Epic flare" which I personally find distracting and just too much, and in some cases, like a product shot, where the image must be clean at all costs, it would be a really serious problem.
 
Good news is, for anyone having problems today, there's a quick fix available- matte black tape, (or better, black velvet or felt with an adhesive backing), around that f$&@/ing stupid part in front of the OLPF.
 
Peter Moretti said:
I'm sorry Mark, but what the two top pictures show are specular highlights flaring. In one case, it's the roof of the car. In the other, it's the sun. What the heck is causing the flare on his hand? Those first two pictures are not analogous to the third.
Click to expand...

Yes the third picture has unjustified flare which ends up being akin to unwanted noise - there is no way for the audience to understand why it is there. To me in great cinematography everything feels justified and fits in with the rest without useless distraction. The Epic is stupendous - in my mind so good that I am no longer interested in seeing new cams at trade shows - a first, for sure. But this has been a real issue - in fact the only real issue.
 
Mark Pugh said:
Good news is, for anyone having problems today, there's a quick fix available- matte black tape, (or better, black velvet or felt with an adhesive backing), around that f$&@/ing stupid part in front of the OLPF.
Click to expand...

Pictures of what you did?
 
Mark Pugh said:
Good news is, for anyone having problems today, there's a quick fix available- matte black tape, (or better, black velvet or felt with an adhesive backing), around that f$&@/ing stupid part in front of the OLPF.
Click to expand...

I knew you were on to something with this. A pic would be a good thing, but I would blow this by RED to make sure it's not damaging anything of voiding anything or something weird.

David
 
Epic difinately needs a frenchflag when you have light source shooting down from above.
 
Evening All,

Playing with the Sony F3 today as well as a few other bits and pieces. The F3 has the same kind of edge-of-frame-flare. Pretty much identical to what I'm seeing here. I've seen it before on the F3 but I've always blamed it on Zeiss CP2's (which I do a show on with the F3) and I can generally flag it off. I've not seen it yet on my epic I must say; I'm not saying it's not there however. Anyways, confirmed same flare on Sony F3. I've shot on the Alexa a lot and I can't say I've noticed it there.

Ben
 
I stuck thin camera tape all around the metal in front of the sensor and it didn't make a difference. I think it could be coming from the edge of the shiny metal that I cannot cover with camera tape. ( The thin edge).

The RED ONE's covering infront of the sensor is made from black plastic and the EPIC is shiny painted metal. Maybe a matt plastic version cover is the answer for the EPIC, but i am very interested to see what Mark Pugh has done.

I am sorry if I was seem to be ranting to Mark Toia, but this is a very frustrating problem that cannot be resolved with matts if the camera if moving around like on a steadicam.

When the camera is locked off it is pretty easy to cut the flares out with a flag.
 
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