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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic STREAK FLARING

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Adam Eden

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Has anybody else experienced this? I was shooting a circus tonight and was getting weird internal flares on the footage and it didn't matter what lens I used.

I have had this complaint from a client who rented the camera from me a couple of weeks ago.
I was shooting with my RED ONE MX also with the same set of lenses tonight and did not get any flaring like this at all which makes me believe there is something wrong with my EPIC M.

The flares are vertical smears of light from both the bottom and top of the frame and whats really strange is as you can see my panning the lens is really no where near the source light.

This happens in all modes. ie 2k, 4k and 5k.

Shot on Arri/Zeiss Light weight Zoom, T2.6 (Wide open). 4H HD , 400 ISO. This fault has been reported to me with clients using Ultra primes, CP'2 and Super speeds, and i can easily re create the same looking footage with any light source.

See link below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtVp0D0Zbzo
 
I have had problems with flaring from light sources not in frame but just out of frame. Recently had a big problem with evening bright western sky and shady a scene below the sky. Flagging it solved the problem. Stray light hitting the lens is a really issue. Matt boxes and flags are critical to a clean image. It is most noticeable in low key scenes and when the light source nearby is much brighter than the scene in camera.
 
Me too... but when I cut the harsh light source with my hand from the lens face it instantly goes away.. so it is lens related coming in.

Personally I think it looks cool... You pays thousand to get that look in post :)

In short, gaurd against flares, use your matt box more efficiently. This is not a RED issue. I've seen it in Canons, Film cameras... but for sure it is there and I have noticed it.
 
Welcome to mattebox / light-shield 101. You can replicate this with any camera, any lens. Just because a light is not in frame, it does not mean that you still won't get reflections or glare across the front of your lens.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Welcome to mattebox / light-shield 101. You can replicate this with any camera...
Click to expand...

I disagree, Jeff...
and was wondering when this topic would emerge.

Something's changed from the Red One MX, though it's not the end of the world.
I guess there's light bouncing of the sides of the photo sites in come way- a bit like having mirrors on the insides of your matte box flaps. It definitely wasn't like this on a Red One...
I suppose that it's a side effect of a design that produces other benefits to the sensor in terms of light gathering.
 
Agree..
Ive got two shots in my edit right this second with the flare in mention.. But I sort of like it :) .. It's different than the norm.. thats why I noticed it.
I used to see this now in then on the 35mm MOVIECAM and the BL... It's very bounce, reflective natured.. .. something is definitely going in there before it hits the chip ..

I really like it to be honest. Kind of organic in a way.


Mark Pugh said:
I disagree, Jeff...
and was wondering when this topic would emerge.

Something's changed from the Red One MX, though it's not the end of the world.
I guess there's light bouncing of the sides of the photo sites in come way- a bit like having mirrors on the insides of your matte box flaps. It definitely wasn't like this on a Red One...
I suppose that it's a side effect of a design that produces other benefits to the sensor in terms of light gathering.
Click to expand...
 
This is pure speculation, but given that more of the Mysterium-X sensor is used in Epic compared to the Red One (and possibly exposed to light), it may well be that Super35 lenses with a tight circle (ie. little additional coverage above their rated coverage) are getting edge flaring on the limit of their optics.

Also bear in mind that with more of the sensor exposed to light, things that aren't visible on the viewfinder due to sensor cropped ratios may still be flaring below or above what you can visibly see.

Cheers from Tokyo,

Paul :)
 
Adam, did you have a bottom flag on the mattebox - as the flare is coming from bottom of frame?
 
Mark Pugh said:
Although the sensor is supposed to be the same MX as the one in the Red One, I can't see that could be true, given the flares.
Click to expand...

The sensor could be the same and the OLPF could still be different. This would affect the image, and possibly could produce the flares people are seeing...
 
Mark Pugh said:
Some kind of tiny lines on the OLPF, doing what a blue streak filter does?
That would effect lights in shot also, surely. I still say it's something to do with light bouncing off the walls of photo sites.
Click to expand...

Even on the R1 you could get light bouncing off the OLFP back onto the back of the lens and then back into the sensor. What happens if you used a net on the back of the lens? I wonder if that flare would still be there. It's the same principle as light bouncing off a filter in the mattebox back into the front of the lens.

The flange distance is the same in the EPIC and the R1 so the internal PL area has to be the same "volume", so that is kinda rulled out.

Maybe it's the difference in mounts.

Just tossing stuff out there.

David
 
I personally had it on some superspeeds on this shoot and I liked it - all I had to do to get rid of it was use an eyebrow on the matte box:

http://www.vimeo.com/26310928

This is the kind of flare seen in many many classic films - partially a lens thing, partially a shading the lens thing, and maybe maybe a gate/sensor thing - personally I find it more "film-like" than the MX's flare reaction. It has a boatload of character if allowed to flare right.
 
Here is a link to a test my buddy did: http://vimeo.com/26999114

He shot this to see the difference between the Red One MX and the Epic. I would say it is clear that the sensors flare differently, because he shot them under identical conditions, settings, and lenses. I too like the Epic flares, but the OP is correct... there is a difference. Check out the flares coming off the water.
 
There's no question there is some flaring coming off the water, but I'm not 100% sure the shots were done under "identical conditions." Close. But not identical. The angle of the sun appears to be quite different between the two shots.

Stephen
 
I agree with Ken. I've shot a lot of film and these kind of flares are common, and not always due to a mattebox. I've also seen them when shooting DSLRs.

P
 
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