Davinci Resolve Dongle Nightmare....

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Seen the crazies go nuts in the past when other companies got rid of dongles. Lots of unfounded fears that everyone will suddenly be facing tons of competition from the kid down the street that copies the software from dad's work or whatever. Fears that a small production boutique with two seats of Software-X will suddenly have 20 seats of the same software and will magically hire enough competent people to use it, while charging lower rates. The latter isn't going to happen and the kid down the street who swaps torrents with everyone he knows, already has more professional software on his gaming rig than most of us even know exists. In the world of warez (pirated software), having the latest and greatest expensive software, especially having it first, is a huge status symbol. Knowing anything about what it does or how to use it, is not required. The software is all about bragging rights and bargaining chips. In the end, what most of the kids are after these days are music, mobile apps, porn and console/PC games -- and usually in that order.

The majority of software out there now does not use dongles. I would say that of the apps using dongles in 2001, of the ones that still exist, less than half of those still use dongles today. It's a good trend, but a slow and gradual progression. I have a lot more "expensive" apps on my workstations now than I did back then, but also the software is a lot cheaper as a whole. And rarely more than 3 or 4 dongles per system. 12 years ago, it wasn't uncommon to have a chain of 5 or 6 parallel-port dongles, in addition to 2 or 3 USB keys, just for my plugins that my other dongle-protected software used. It was insane.

 

[Robert Horwell]

Putting my geek hat on... with 15 years+ in the IT business...

I would NEVER use a program than needed a dongle. Period.

For exactly the reasons stated.

I know of very serious businesses that relied on and absolutely had to use dongle-protected software. What they did was, they bought the software, they put all the dongles in the safe, and they would ONLY ever run 'cracked' pirate versions of the software in production.

They were geek enough to be confident with the cracked software. I wouldn't be surprised if this was done with the very tacit and unofficial support of the software account rep, to make the sale.

Using dongles is dumb. Telling a registered paying customer that a lost dongle can't be replaced is cretinous. I swear I will never buy Resolve or any associated products - that's obviously what they want, with that attitude.

Mike

MIke thats just how i feel.......no support at all from BMD, it's such a shame, ii was about to invest quite heavily in training and kit from them and related to their products.

 

[Adam Eden]

Hi Robert and everyone else here on the forum...

Guys i really cant see what everyone is complaining about? If you are running a business and have proper insurance, then make a claim and buy another license.

Losing a dongle is the same as loosing a piece of hardware in their eyes..

 

[jake blackstone]

Similar dongle story. Purchased Glue tools, that actually went from keys to dongle security scheme(?) and had a long conversation with the owner/ developer about difficulties getting the physical dongle into Ukraine, where I had a company at the time. He assured me, that there will be no problem and he even issued me a temp. 3 months license. Long story short, 3 months later, no dongle, no record of delivery, I get accused of trying to scam the developer, he kindly asks me to stop by his NAB booth for face to face, so it would be more convenient for him to punch me out At the end I got half of the purchase price refunded and no software...

 

[Luis Otero]

Jake,

That sucks...! Thanks God they do not use dongle for GlueTools - CineonDPX version...

 

[Stephen Gentle]

MIke thats just how i feel.......no support at all from BMD, it's such a shame, ii was about to invest quite heavily in training and kit from them and related to their products.

You have purchased a licence to use the product, and losing the dongle doesn't change that... So I don't see a problem with using certain methods to remove the copy protection...

 

[Brent J. Craig]

MIke thats just how i feel.......no support at all from BMD, it's such a shame, ii was about to invest quite heavily in training and kit from them and related to their products.

I heard from someone who has dealt with BMD that perhaps you just haven't reached the right person. The tech support/sales drones can't help you, but if you can manage to escalate to someone with authority you might have better luck.

It's a stupid situation, and BMD has brought it upon themselves by using copy protection from the 1980's. If they want to do business that way, the least they can do is make things right when required.

 

[Michael Romano]

I worked for a VERY large audio post facility some years ago - the whole place ran on ProTools. One day, someone just decided to jack $50K+ of iLoks from the locker. Poor physical security was to blame in the end and some interns took the heat. The real thief was never identified but the hit was tremendous. I don't chance it with my own software. It's hard enough to keep my HARDWARE safe from theft & damage!

1 - Buy it
2 - Put the dongle somewhere safe.
3 - Take advantage of the "Warez Scene" kids (Don't get mixed up, remember step 1 - even if it feels soooo good)
4 - Run pirate version
5 - Don't worry about insurance claims or downtime and get some sleep at night

I have years of updates and licenses loaded onto my own iLok. It just sits in a box at home now and I'm happy as a clam.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I worked for a VERY large audio post facility some years ago - the whole place ran on ProTools. One day, someone just decided to jack $50K+ of iLoks from the locker. Poor physical security was to blame in the end and some interns took the heat. The real thief was never identified but the hit was tremendous.

iLok actually has insurance plans available -- but it'd be a major ordeal if it was dozens of iLoks and $50K in plug-ins.

I suspect DaVinci would find a way to get you back up in running if (say) the dongle got damaged in transport, or stolen, or whatever. I'm actually not aware of what the $150,000 DaVinci Linux systems are tied to, whether it's one specific processor, or a specific serial number, or what. I can say that even old DaVinci 2K software/hardware was tied to a specific mainframe, so you couldn't steal a board from one machine and stick it into another machine. From a business point of view, I understand it, but from a user point of view, it was sometimes inconvenient.

 

[RivaiC]

Similar dongle story. Purchased Glue tools, that actually went from keys to dongle security scheme(?) and had a long conversation with the owner/ developer about difficulties getting the physical dongle into Ukraine, where I had a company at the time. He assured me, that there will be no problem and he even issued me a temp. 3 months license. Long story short, 3 months later, no dongle, no record of delivery, I get accused of trying to scam the developer, he kindly asks me to stop by his NAB booth for face to face, so it would be more convenient for him to punch me out At the end I got half of the purchase price refunded and no software...

Oh boy ! Exactly same story.....but i push him tho, there's no way that he could get away with it. It was a pretty long argument where kept saying the dongle should be at our facilities already and we are trying to cheat him. Oh man....i think thats why at the end, he removed dongle protection

Rivai

 

[Michael Olsen]

Guys i really cant see what everyone is complaining about?

I think it's the fact that software is tied to hardware, introducing a massive point of critical failure which can cripple a business. And to add insult to injury, it doesn't need to exist and - as proven by the massive amount of cracks available - is pretty much pointless in the first place.

 

[Robert Horwell]

You have purchased a licence to use the product, and losing the dongle doesn't change that... So I don't see a problem with using certain methods to remove the copy protection...

how...where?

 

[M Most]

You have purchased a licence to use the product, and losing the dongle doesn't change that... So I don't see a problem with using certain methods to remove the copy protection...

Well, I don't see a problem with smoking dope in public. That doesn't change the fact that you can still be arrested for it.

You don't get to make up your own rules when you've bought something that is sold to you with a license agreement that clearly spells out what you can and cannot legally do with that software. You don't own the software, Blackmagic does. They sell you a license to use it, and that license contains certain conditions that they get to set, not you. If you don't like it, you shouldn't do business with them. I can't tell you not to do what you're going to do anyway. But I don't think it's either fair or right to state that you somehow have the right to either ignore or rewrite a license agreement that you agreed to when you bought the software - if you bought it. This isn't about moral judgements, this is about legal rights that they have and you don't.

 

[Robert Horwell]

Well, I don't see a problem with smoking dope in public. That doesn't change the fact that you can still be arrested for it.

You don't get to make up your own rules when you've bought something that is sold to you with a license agreement that clearly spells out what you can and cannot legally do with that software. You don't own the software, Blackmagic does. They sell you a license to use it, and that license contains certain conditions that they get to set, not you. If you don't like it, you shouldn't do business with them. I can't tell you not to do what you're going to do anyway. But I don't think it's either fair or right to state that you somehow have the right to either ignore or rewrite a license agreement that you agreed to when you bought the software - if you bought it. This isn't about moral judgements, this is about legal rights that they have and you don't.

Whoa, calm down here, i haven't dpne anything yet...i started this thread because i lost my dongle......and tried to get some support from BMD which was not forthcoming, have you read the whole thread.?

 

[M Most]

My reply was not to you. It was to the poster who suggested that removing copy protection is OK. I don't happen to agree.

 

[Robert Horwell]

How do you feel about a dongle to protect software? do you think it is any more or less effective, is it easier for you as a user not to have to use and manage dongles? i know you use a fair bit of software yourself.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Also consider that the dongle is what you are specifically purchasing. It is your license and key to operate the software. Anyone can freely download the software from the BMD web site. But as is specified in their EULA, you must have a valid license and key to operate it. You are not buying the software, you do not own the software, you do not own a copy of it, etc.. You have paid for the license to operate it when attached to that key. You lose the key, too bad, you're F'd.

...Which leads us back to the earlier posts in this thread. There are newer and better ways to license, key and protect software these days. Dongles are not the only answer, nor are they the best solution. Especially in a one-size-fits-all solution, which is what we have here. Yeah, it sucks you lost your dongle. And yeah, I wish BMD would step into the current decade and leave dongles behind. But it doesn't change the fact of how it is now. Sorry for your loss, I feel your pain. I've had dongles go AWOL over the years and it hurts.

The advocacy for software piracy is not something I view in good light either. I make most of my money from my software development ventures and IT business, not from shooting RED or doing post workflow, even though that may be where my stronger interests are. Most of my video production / RED or animation projects over the past few years tend to go hand in hand with some piece of software. And the notion that professional studios or whoever are buying software then locking away the dongles only to run cracked / pirate versions, is absurd. I'm sure there are some who do this because they're so afraid and mistrustful of their own employees or of dongles simply getting lost. But let's face it, that's giving in to irrational fear and paranoia. And tends to be a veiled excuse to operate the same software on multiple workstations. If someone ever questions, they can say "oh, no. we purchased it legally, see, here's my dongle". Any time you start running cracked software, you're in violation of the software EULA. In violation of the law in many places. You take the risk of running software modified by an unknown person, which could subsequently contain a virus or malware. But in most situations it simply may just not work 100%. Do you really want to be running software that my have a potential issue? Then if an issue is identified, you have to wipe that software, reinstall the legit version with hardware key, see if the issue is still there before calling support. Updates come out and you have to wait for someone to crack the update, then hope it works 100%. Come on, this is stupid. Sure you could crack the software yourself, it's not that difficult in most situations. But it still takes time to learn how and to put it into practice. Once again, it still takes some work to get it 100%, it takes time. My time is worth more than that most of the time.

I think I said it above in this thread, but real hackers and software hounds run dongle emulators, rather than monkeying around with modifying or cracking the actual software. But that still doesn't make it right. Best thing to do is to run the software with the appropriate hardware key. Take proper means to secure those hardware keys in whatever environment they're in. Even if it means placing them on internal USB headers and welding the system case shut. Yeah, been there, done that.

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Well, I don't see a problem with smoking dope in public. That doesn't change the fact that you can still be arrested for it.

You don't get to make up your own rules when you've bought something that is sold to you with a license agreement that clearly spells out what you can and cannot legally do with that software. You don't own the software, Blackmagic does. They sell you a license to use it, and that license contains certain conditions that they get to set, not you. If you don't like it, you shouldn't do business with them. I can't tell you not to do what you're going to do anyway. But I don't think it's either fair or right to state that you somehow have the right to either ignore or rewrite a license agreement that you agreed to when you bought the software - if you bought it. This isn't about moral judgements, this is about legal rights that they have and you don't.

1. Don't be so certain of your legal grounds here; your rights will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and in some places some clauses in such license agreements aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

2. If it ever comes to court, the software company would have to quantify their losses, since that's what they would be suing for. That could prove interesting...

3. I agree with your 'don't do business with them' suggestion; that's my attitude too.

4. If your business is critically dependent on software you don't have unfettered rights to, you don't own your business: 'they' do. IBM, through their mainframe software, 'own' the US government and most of the Fortune 500. Software license cancelled, withdrawn, or refused renewal? No more Ford or GM. No more US government. 'The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it' - Frank Herbert, Dune. That's one of the reasons I'm a tireless proponent of open source.

Mike (who made his living writing, testing & selling software for too many years)

 

[Robert Horwell]

Thanks for the input mike.

 

[Robert Horwell]

Jeff, it would be cool if we could be offered an option of having either dongle protected software or Key-code protected on purchase, i'm just about to purchase storm as well, sounds like what they are coming out with next is going to be very exciting. As for me, i just booked myself on the davinci Resolve training coarse this friday, here in london. So i'll probably end up buying Resolve AGAIN on friday....but i'll push for a good discount.. ;-)