AVID PREVIEWS AJA Kona / Blackmagic / MOTU, 64-bit, res-independent, 7.1, Red Giant &

[Job ter Burg]

When I think AVID I think Sony
When I think apple. I think red.

Yet Avid provides a better workflow for both Sony and Red footage. And Avid is a company with people you can actually get in touch with (their own forum, the Cow, and here for example). For Avid, professional post production is their core business. Not iPhones.

I hear you when it comes to the perception of Avid as an arrogant, uninterested company. Those sad days are gone, though. They are much more responsive and have been making much interesting progress, feature-wise. ScriptSync and PhraseFind come to mind as everyday editing tools at a more than just useable level.

I'm very critical of the company, but I stuck with Avid as they always managed to make the most sense for my workflows. Still do, more than any other tool.

 

[Elmer Tenkink]

Steve,

I think that this is what FCP X actually is.

David

I think FCPX is more towards dslr shooters (with a lot options missing)
But using it as a hub wouldn't be bad.
Import dslr files, solve rolling shutter etc. auto sync the audio on it, and export files for editing in Avid

 

[Eric Santiago]

You are sooo right. But AVID lost the scope of their core business : editing tool for editors and went with more or less talent with sound, post-production (DS), media distribution... and lost a lot of editors in the way, perhaps for the sake of their business?

Good it looks like they are back and listening to the "market".

Pat

Ive stated this before but my conspiracy theory is that Apple stepped back to let the others enjoy their time in Apple world. The one thing I didnt hear from most haters on FCPX out there is that they were going to sell their Macs for a PC. Im hoping Avid smartens, they have lost a few out there over the years and not because of the software but their lack of vision and communication.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Steve,

I think that this is what FCP X actually is.

David

I don't agree. Not in its current state. Maybe down the line. I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt but have to say I was surprised by the way they launched this new version. Not the initial tease at NAB. I knew that was going to be light on details. But didn't expect as much holdout on the actual release. I have read up a bit on AV Foundation and I see where they are trying to go but not everyone is reading up on this stuff and they need to communicate better so people understand their direction. And the way they stopped FCP7 initially made me question their approach based on the fact that the new version was so different and was going to need time to transition people. So right now, I think having all three NLEs can be a strength. They all have their shortcomings.

 

[David Battistella]

If I had to. I could.

The same way as if I was shooting EPIC right now, without every feature enabled, I could still get it done.

No playback. No problem.

I've squeezed out an OMF and scene detection is remarkably good in Davinci Resolve.

Many people are not quite aware of how powerful the color board is. I'd say minus the tracking it's on par with Davinci and it's good up to 4k

Im not one for needing everything to be perfect in order to make it work. I'll find a way.

I'm sure you can provide a laundry list of what you as a pro need to do your job and why FCPX is a hunk of shit, but I'm not really interested in what it can't do. Just what it does do very well right now. Better than any other NLE I have sat in front of.


David

 

[David Battistella]

@steve

I'm with you. It has potential but we have to see it. The rollout was poorly handled but I judge apple for that, not the software. I'm a tester. I'm testing. I'm using it. I'm plugging things in. I know it's strength, weakness and I apply that the way I choose to now.

I'm not going to convict a very well though out tool minus some features and legacy support because I think Appke didn't hand it to me on the dish I asked for.

I'm not afraid of software. I want to know if and how it can make my like easier and if it extends me creatively (the same criteria goes for a camera and red is a good analogy) was the rollout if the red one perfect. Did a lot if people condemn the tool. He'll yes. But a lot if people embraced it too.

I rather not be part of the destruction gang, I like to be part of the construction crew.


David.

 

[DCC Erickson]

In the truly pathetic comments category, I'm just glad the interface no longer looks like it's stuck in the '70s. It made me cringe.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

David,

What's the point of a Color Board when there is no way to properly monitor your colors? Are you editing for web with only a calibrated computer display? Also missing from Apple Color is 3D LUTs, native R3D support, RED rocket card support and no support for external control panels. On top of that the UI In FCPX is tabbed with major sections being all over the place. I don't think this tool was well thought out at all.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

@steve

I'm with you. It has potential but we have to see it. The rollout was poorly handled but I judge apple for that, not the software. I'm a tester. I'm testing. I'm using it. I'm plugging things in. I know it's strength, weakness and I apply that the way I choose to now.

I'm not going to convict a very well roughy out tool minus some features and legacy support because I think Appke didn't hand it to me on the dish I asked for.

I'm not afraid of software. I want to know if and how it can make my like easier and if it extends me creatively (the same criteria goes for a camera and red is a good analogy) was the rollout if the red one perfect. Did a lot if people condemn the tool. He'll yes. But a lot if people embraced it too.

I rather not be part of the destruction gang, I like to be part of the construction crew.


David.

David, I think you have a very good attitude towards these things. It is easy to take shots at Apple right now. I have even taken a few. It's harder to do the research (AV Foundation, metadata approach, etc) and see what the potential is. In all fairness to those who have railed against it, I do think it comes down to what kind of world you work in. If you are at a facility that is managing a lot of projects and interfacing with all kinds of people like sound designers, colorists, DI labs, etc you could easily be scared off from this new version of FCP due to how it was released. And you could look at Apple the company and say they are not a dedicated post production software/hardware company but rather a huge entity that has a large base in consumer products. I think that's a natural reaction. Now guys like you and me that are have our own small shops I think can get away with tinkering and seeing what works best for our pipeline but it's much harder to do that in larger facilities. That's why I'm saying in some ways, small shops have it made to a certain extent because they can change must faster. It's not that big a deal for me to have all three NLEs. But I don't have to buy hundreds of seats, provide training, build all kinds of infrastructure, etc.

I do find it interesting that you linked Apple and RED. Initially, they appeared to be in bed together. Recently though, it has seemed the opposite. I'm sure support will come in FCPX. But I find it interesting that Apple has never had any interest in this community. I know they are a big entity, but surely someone from Apple could have appeared once in a while to get some feedback, connect. And this is coming from someone who attempted to get them involved at every Reduser event and was basically told they had no interest in doing that. So, perhaps it comes down to a different strategy and this RED world is just too small for them to really focus much attention on, but with close to 10,000 RED cameras out there, and presumably a lot more than that six months from now, you'd think it might be worth at least some attempt to connect, but I'm sure the bean counters would disagree with me.

 

[Eric Santiago]

I do find it interesting that you linked Apple and RED. Initially, they appeared to be in bed together. Recently though, it has seemed the opposite. I'm sure support will come in FCPX. But I find it interesting that Apple has never had any interest in this community. I know they are a big entity, but surely someone from Apple could have appeared once in a while to get some feedback, connect. And this is coming from someone who attempted to get them involved at every Reduser event and was basically told they had no interest in doing that. So, perhaps it comes down to a different strategy and this RED world is just too small for them to really focus much attention on, but with close to 10,000 RED cameras out there, and presumably a lot more than that six months from now, you'd think it might be worth at least some attempt to connect, but I'm sure the bean counters would disagree with me.

Over the years Ive been online from chat lines to forums Ive never see Apple get involved. The usual local event will have an Apple logo but it comes from the vendor thats selling their products. My first NAB this year and even there Apple wasnt really involved. The SuperMeet was the only one.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Over the years Ive been online from chat lines to forums Ive never see Apple get involved. The usual local event will have an Apple logo but it comes from the vendor thats selling their products. My first NAB this year and even there Apple wasnt really involved. The SuperMeet was the only one.

I believe there was some sort of mandate from Apple that basically said no more trade shows. I think they were interested in going a different way, namely the web, TV and print, for all PR. This year's NAB was a break from that, and they politely asked to be involved with the Supermeet (look at my straight face). In retrospect, maybe that was a mistake. Who knows. As I've said before, Apple has plenty of revenue to back up their marketing strategies. Me, I've got an opinion and not much more.

 

[David Battistella]

Yet Avid provides a better workflow for both Sony and Red footage. And Avid is a company with people you can actually get in touch with (their own forum, the Cow, and here for example).

I agree with you.

But we have Apple and FCP to thank for the state of NLE today. 10 years ago you could invest in AVID for about 100K today you can get in the softwaer for 1K. Thank Apple for that. Iphones might be what has made them, but I don't think iphones were around when FCP was released and WEB based video was NO WHERE NEAR where it is today.

So. They built a tool for where the business is going not where it is.

Walter Gretzky said to his son. "skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it is."

As I have stated. I agree with you on AVID being a solid editing tool. I was a person starving for more from the editing experience and I find some of that being satisfied in FCP X. I care a lot about editing, about craft, and I have spend MANY hours in front of MANY NLE's. I follow this industry. I have been loyal to AVID, I have been loyal to Apple.

I don't foget things. Remeber when AVID completely abandone the MAC platform entirely? Remember when they shat on Apple for not giving them enough slots in a MAC to build their machine. ? I'm not saying that is the AVID of today, but all these people are ripping apple when they are actaully responsible for giving us ALL of the choices we have right now.

David

 

[David Battistella]

I do find it interesting that you linked Apple and RED.

I think they have a similar rebelious streak and are run by very determined individuals who want to affect positive change. I see SONY and AVID as more corporate.

David


I never see Apple on the COW, on DSLR forums, on CANON, Nikon forums. It's not their style it seems.

If I was at ADOBE or AVID right now, this is exactly where I would be, like a lawyer in an emergency room. (that was a joke I could not resist)

David

 

[David Battistella]

David,

What's the point of a Color Board when there is no way to properly monitor your colors?

Andrae,

This one is easy.

All I need to do is create a file in FCP X using the built in scopes and grade, whatever, etc. Put some bars on the head of the file as well.

OUTPUT the file and play it through a KONA 3 with scopes and an attached monitor. I compare the scopes inside FCP to the external scopes and then I am calibrated. I had the same issue in FCP 5. I got a set of waveform and vecotrscopes and found there was no ofset between the FCP and the external scopes. I delivered show after show without turning those scopes on.

If you want you can calibrate with a spyder 3 and use a second monitor in FCP X and use that as your "reference". The AV hooks will be there for AJA and Decklink in a few months and this is a stopgap. There is always a way to get it right, you just need continuity and to know the tools tendency.

Heck you could use the V out on AJA TV, Adobe AE FCP 7.

On top of that the UI In FCPX is tabbed with major sections being all over the place. I don't think this tool was well thought out at all.

I like the show/hide stuff in the software. I find the interface really clean. By the image I saw in this thread it looks like AVID went to a very iMOVIE look as well. Look at REDCINE X for gosh sake, it's MUCH more like FCP X than FCP 7, swap a few colors and you ahve a very similar way of thinking. . That is how GUI's are starting to look now.

 

[Dane Henry]

I like the show/hide stuff in the software. I find the interface really clean. By the image I saw in this thread it looks like AVID went to a very iMOVIE look as well. Look at REDCINE X for gosh sake, it's MUCH more like FCP X than FCP 7, swap a few colors and you ahve a very similar way of thinking. . That is how GUI's are starting to look now.[/QUOTE]

Just because AVID has gone to a darker User Interface doesnt mean it is more iMovie. I was super excited when I saw the new AVID interface, I hate staring at a bright screen all day. It is also something I DO like in FCPX, but again I wouldn't say just because the darker UI, that is iMovie like. Adobe's software has let you change the UI shade since the original CS.

I for one am very thankful for AVID & Adobe for stepping up to the plate since the FCPX debacle.

-Dane Henry
deeprootsmedia.com

 

[Andrae Palmer]

David,

Your current stop gap method is pretty amazing. Outputting a file just to compare it with scopes. That is one tedious way of working. I don't like that type of progress. As far as calibrating the monitor to say REC709 space... do you know if this will even be possible with the current ColorSync implementation? No one knows anything about what kind of matrix it uses.

 

[David Battistella]

@Dane

It's more than a darker ui. It's the 3D bubble look borrowed from iMovie.

Man. I think I'll start calling This latest version of AVID "iMovie Pro" no wait, "iMovie MC Express" remember that fantastic AVID offering? Here, you buy the software for ten cents, we'll make it look just like media composer and then we will turn off basic trimming features.

Long before there was iMovie there was MC Express, the only editing software that made me want to throw a quadra 950 out a fourth floor window.

 

[David Battistella]

David,

Your current stop gap method is pretty amazing. Outputting a file just to compare it with scopes. That is one tedious way of working. I don't like that type of progress. As far as calibrating the monitor to say REC709 space... do you know if this will even be possible with the current ColorSync implementation? No one knows anything about what kind of matrix it uses.

Andrae,

If I delivered a file for an hdcam sr output to a reputable transfer house do you not think I could see if there were stray pixels. Even RED has pretty much abandoned REC 709 space. Do you set RED footage to REC 709. What does a RedRocket show you? Calibrated REC 709 output?

ColorSync workflow in FCPX is going to be what pantone is to print. You watch. I'll bet rr will eventually hook into AV foundation for accurate color reproduction of r3d across many platforms.

David

 

[Eric Santiago]

@Dane

It's more than a darker ui. It's the 3D bubble look borrowed from iMovie.

Man. I think I'll start calling This latest version of AVID "iMovie Pro" no wait, "iMovie MC Express" remember that fantastic AVID offering? Here, you buy the software for ten cents, we'll make it look just like media composer and then we will turn off basic trimming features.

Long before there was iMovie there was MC Express, the only editing software that made me want to throw a quadra 950 out a fourth floor window.

Fully loaded Quadra 950? you sir must be very strong
All kidding aside, I look forward to anything any of the NLE's offer. Avid needs more than a new GUI and 64bit to make us happy here. We've been throwing money at them for over 14 years and the last half was not a fun ride
We were worried when they took over Digidesign but so far that part of the game hasnt been abused. We rarely have any problems but still pay the support.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

David,

I set colorspace based on intended deliverable format. For broadcast REC709 and DCI-P3 for theatrical release. If TV sets could debayer RED footage in REDColor2/REDGamma2 then yes I would set it for that. As far as my limited knowledge millions of Americans don't have that capabilities as of yet. They do have REC709 though.

As far as your other magical AV Foundation/ColorSync future possibilities. I bet you someone in the future will have infra red colorspace merged on top of CIEXYZ embedded in the human eye and on all devices. On top of that I bet electromagnetic telescopic functions will then be layered for full spectrum analysis of the universe.