Transformers 3 Discussion

[Michael Millichamp]

I agree that it is what it is.

But I also agree that it can be improved. But what can't?

Michael Bay is so good at making action scenes awesome. They are intense and realistic (sometimes). Every single person on this board, I hope, knew what they were getting into when they purchased that expensive ticket along with those awful 3D glasses. The first Transformers was alright, the second awful, so what makes you think that a series of not too good movies would have a good third?

BUT! Do you know what was good about the movies? The sound and visual fx. And that is the primary reason people go see these movies. To watch 8 story tall robots, beating the shit out of other robots and smashing into tiny humans and tearing down buildings and crashing into the moon. I mean, that is what this movie is. If it wasn't, the trailer wouldn't have primarily focused on that, and they would have focused on Sam not having a job and struggling to get one. Did anyone know that was even part of the plot by watching the trailer? No. Because no one gives a shit about that. People watch these movies to see great CGI and pretty visuals.

But, that's just my opinion of course.

 

[Julio Quintana]

The problem is, when this stuff makes boatloads of cash, studios figure that this is the stuff that audiences really want so they produce more and more of it. Soon, they start to think that audiences can't handle thought provoking blockbusters like Inception.

I think this is a perfect example, as several non-film industry people I know found Inception confusing and tedious. In fact for most of them, their favorite part of the whole movie was the fight scene in the floating hotel hallway.

We can get frustrated with studios for treating everyone like idiots, or we can accept that most people would rather eat pepperoni pizza than caviar.

 

[Benni Diez]

I'll chime in with a quote of Alan Moore:
“Its not the job of the artists to give the people what they want, but to give them what they need. If the people truly knew what they needed, they would be the artists themselves.”
... which might seem kind of arrogant from the audience's point of view. But it isn't. Everyone who calls himself an artist in good conscience is looking for and trying to hand on some kind of truth, no matter on what level.
If you as an artist are satisfied with only delivering a sparkling shell, you're only doing half your job. And I'm sorry, but saying "yeah well but it was supposed to be only a popcorn movie" is just giving in to and therefore supporting the current (and very worrying) decline of respect between industry and audience.
Mr. Bay is a great craftsman when it comes to creating insanely paced and weighted action sequences. But there's a lot more to making a truly great movie. Especially if you have such a level of resources. As much as I enjoy some of his older films and bits and pieces of his overall body of work, his latest few entries just make me sad.

 

[Jason Svatos]

This is the best way to get Hollywood to make the movies you want to see: make them yourself, or stop seeing the movies you know you don't want to see.

To the first point, this is a forum of very, very creative and very, very talented people. If you have it in your mind what the perfect intelligent action film should be, go get it made. This is absolutely the best time to be a filmmaker, and you are absolutely in the right place to get the ball rolling on that.

To the second point, I can't stand it when someone says "I knew it was going to be terrible". Then why did you see it? It's not a requirement. There's no burden. YOU made the choice to pay the money to see it. If you didn't like the first two... why see the third? It just doesn't make any sense. I stopped liking most Adam Sandler movies around ten years ago... so I stopped seeing them. I don't understand this constant need to pay money to do things you don't want to do. By purchasing a ticket to a movie you don't really think you're going to like, all you're telling the studio is no matter what - you're going to see it.

It's funny how many people call the Bayhem formula "insulting" to their "intelligence". You KNOW what a Bay movie is going to be, yet you see it anyway, with the idea that it should be exactly what YOU want. In fact, THAT is insulting to the artist, saying that HE should cater to YOU. He made the movie he wanted to make, and it clearly isn't for everyone. It's not even advertised as such. There's no suggestion of deep, powerful meaning or multi-layered plot in the trailers or posters. It's all trucks turning into robots and then killing a bunch of stuff followed by explosion after explosion after explosion. No one tricked you into the experience you got. ;-)

EDIT: And let's be real, people... it's TRANSFORMERS. It's based on a line of toys of cars and planes that turn into blocky, ugly robots. What were you expecting, Requiem for a Dream? Citizen Kane?

 

[Julio Quintana]

I'll chime in with a quote of Alan Moore:
“Its not the job of the artists to give the people what they want, but to give them what they need. If the people truly knew what they needed, they would be the artists themselves.&#8221

I agree with this quote, but only when discussing art. If Michael Bay is an artist, then so is Henry Ford, Sam Walton, and Richard McDonald.

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

Good post Benni. As artists we do have an obligation to inspire and raise the consciousness of our audiences...all while entertaining.

 

[Justin McAleece]

I personally refuse to pay for a ticket and agree that it's idiotic for anyone to go, pay and be disappointed at this point.

This is the best way to get Hollywood to make the movies you want to see: make them yourself, or stop seeing the movies you know you don't want to see.

To the first point, this is a forum of very, very creative and very, very talented people. If you have it in your mind what the perfect intelligent action film should be, go get it made. This is absolutely the best time to be a filmmaker, and you are absolutely in the right place to get the ball rolling on that.

To the second point, I can't stand it when someone says "I knew it was going to be terrible". Then why did you see it? It's not a requirement. There's no burden. YOU made the choice to pay the money to see it. If you didn't like the first two... why see the third? It just doesn't make any sense. I stopped liking most Adam Sandler movies around ten years ago... so I stopped seeing them. I don't understand this constant need to pay money to do things you don't want to do. By purchasing a ticket to a movie you don't really think you're going to like, all you're telling the studio is no matter what - you're going to see it.

It's funny how many people call the Bayhem formula "insulting" to their "intelligence". You KNOW what a Bay movie is going to be, yet you see it anyway, with the idea that it should be exactly what YOU want. In fact, THAT is insulting to the artist, saying that HE should cater to YOU. He made the movie he wanted to make, and it clearly isn't for everyone. It's not even advertised as such. There's no suggestion of deep, powerful meaning or multi-layered plot in the trailers or posters. It's all trucks turning into robots and then killing a bunch of stuff followed by explosion after explosion after explosion. No one tricked you into the experience you got. ;-)

EDIT: And let's be real, people... it's TRANSFORMERS. It's based on a line of toys of cars and planes that turn into blocky, ugly robots. What were you expecting, Requiem for a Dream? Citizen Kane?

 

[Häakon]

Everybody loves to hate Michael Bay and his movies. Lame plot, bad acting, absurd drama, comically ridiculous action sequences and dialogue, you name it. Take that and couple it with his on set persona and his oft deplorable approach to dealing with humans and the hatred writes itself. Critics love to hate him, seasoned moviegoers love to hate him, crew members love to hate him, etcetera.

The thing that gets to me is that all of these things are known quantities at this point. When one goes to a Michael Bay film [or works on a Michael Bay film], one knows what they're getting into. If somebody goes into one of these pictures expecting anything different than what has been served up time and time again... it's idiotic. It's good sport to hate his pictures for how cliché they are but I can't help but remember that the man invented this cliché. His movies are what they are but there is no denying that they are an astonishing spectacle to witness and that, for lack of a better term, they kick ass. The man can blow things up like nobody else. The man is an auteur in the truest sense - if you give Michael a movie, you know that what you will get is a Michael Bay Film and nothing short of it. His dedication is unparalleled and his scope is astronomical.

I choose not to hate Michael, I choose to enjoy his films for exactly what they are - awesome. I don't mean awesome in the high-five sense, I mean awesome as the word is defined. Transformers isn't Taxi Driver, it isn't The Godfather and it isn't Saving Private Ryan. The thing that people seem to overlook is that this is no accident - his films are designed to be exactly what they are. It's a purpose-built sugar goblet full of equal parts gasoline and adrenaline. I don't anticipate ever shedding a single tear at one of his films... and I'm good with that. I didn't go to Transformers to have my world rocked, I went to Transformers to see the kinds of action sequences and set pieces that no other storyteller chooses to create. He's the best of the best at what he does. If one is sick of that sort of thing... don't go see his movies.

I enjoyed the hell out of his movie because I took it at face value. That's what Transformers is all about. Shit exploded, people screamed and the sun set for 2.5 hours.

If it was an original concept, that would be one thing. But taking a franchise that is beloved by many and "Bay-izing" it is where I think most people have a problem.

 

[Jason Svatos]

If it was an original concept, that would be one thing. But taking a franchise that is beloved by many and "Bay-izing" it is where I think most people have a problem.

To that point... they don't have to see it if they don't like it. If they honestly hold TRANSFORMERS that near and dear in their heart, they can watch the old school cartoon and be happy with that. Michael Bay didn't rob them of their childhood.

That said... I don't understand exactly why people are acting like Transformers was this epic story to begin with. They were TOYS. They made a cartoon to sell the TOYS. But I digress.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

I guess you had to be there, but you know by that same right wouldn't it be nice to please the original fans who made the franchise what it is while bringing in new ones.... just a thought.

ps. the first three episodes named (I think) more than meets the eye were intended to sell the toys but they were so popular it became a show which did far better than the toys which were cool but not that great, so it may have started from toys but became much more than that. Oh and as another funny side note the continuity and story between episodes in the old show was horrible, one episode there was five autobots then there are fifteen with no explanation... but they still were better than these films(go watch the transformers animated movie... awesome... you got the TOUCH!!) because they followed and were about the autobots not humans. But that is my own fanboy feelings I have come to accept the movies as a spin off but to your point it just upsets me as remaking these will just incur another whole slew of malice and rancor from the fans of these movies.... It would be nice to see a true transformers live action adaptation using the story lines from the original (though spread out and sparse at times it's there and very good) heck even use the story from the beast wars show that was an awesome adaptation and update of the franchise!

 

[Brad Webb]

The original animated movie is still 1000x better than any of the live action flicks.

 

[Tim Hole]

Wow. Guess they ran out of money to shoot those car scenes....

There was an accident onset and a stuntwomen was paralysed after suffering from brain damage. A cable snapped and whipped through the car. The production was shut down for a day. Apparently this shot was inserted in its place.

I would add to the discussion and say though that I'm sorry but how the f'ck is popcorn entertainment an excuse for bad storytelling. I'm fed up of people saying its just entertainment, its Michael Bay. There is no excuse for spending 200+ mil on bad scriptwriting. A film can be popcorn entertainment and still be a damn good thrilling ride. Far more people would be excited about this kind of film if it was tight action and dramatic storytelling, rather than just robo-porn.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

transformers, robots in disguise, autobots wage their battle, to destroy, the evil forces of, the decepticons! TRANSFORMERS! mraaawww (from memory not sure if it's right)

the cast in that movie is wild, though I didn't like they changed some of the voice actors you get used to it, but the eighties rock during the fight scenes gets me every time.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Ok, I want the four minutes back that took me to read through this thread. Oh yeah and the 20 seconds it took me to type this...

 

[Jason Svatos]

There is no excuse for spending 200+ mil on bad scriptwriting. A film can be popcorn entertainment and still be a damn good thrilling ride.

I just got done seeing it - and I'd certainly say it was a thrilling ride. Not sure where you're "no excuse" comment is coming from, as they aren't making excuses. They're just making the movie they want to make. They just made a movie you don't want to see. That's ok. There will be other movies.

 

[Liam Hall]

To that point... they don't have to see it if they don't like it. If they honestly hold TRANSFORMERS that near and dear in their heart, they can watch the old school cartoon and be happy with that. Michael Bay didn't rob them of their childhood.

Tell that to my eight-year-old after he's been bombarded by the blitzkrieg marketing campaign that a modern blockbuster employs...

That said... I don't understand exactly why people are acting like Transformers was this epic story to begin with. They were TOYS. They made a cartoon to sell the TOYS. But I digress.

It's precisely because they are children's toys that is at the heart of the issue. Michael Bay has aimed this film at the teenage market, but the toys are aimed at a younger audience. Add in the lazy scriptwriting, racial stereotyping, misogyny and the relentless, mind-numbing violence and you can see why people are getting pissed.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I enjoyed the hell out of his movie because I took it at face value. That's what Transformers is all about. Shit exploded, people screamed and the sun set for 2.5 hours.

Very well said. It's popular entertainment, the very definition of a popcorn movie. The special effects were up a notch beyond anything I've seen from a movie like this, and I thought Amir Mokri's cinematography was very good (as was Stefan Sonnenfeld's color correction). Technically, it's as big as a Hollywood movie can be.

And let's be real, people... it's TRANSFORMERS. It's based on a line of toys of cars and planes that turn into blocky, ugly robots. What were you expecting, Requiem for a Dream? Citizen Kane?

I worked on the cartoon show for several years in the 1980s. Trust me, the plot and acting are no worse than the original. Deep, it ain't.

 

[Jason Svatos]

Tell that to my eight-year-old after he's been bombarded by the blitzkrieg marketing campaign that a modern blockbuster employs...

Let's not get into a marketing vs parenting debate... that won't end well. ;-)

I saw the film last night, and I'm still attempting to recover from it. Loads of fun, and visually the most striking thing I've ever seen in a film, but holy hell - it is LONG. I expected this, but the first half did start to drag a little. They could have easily trimmed some time from the opening sequence (that was actually pretty cool, and makes me wonder why people say the film has no plot. It's there, just.. you know. It takes a back seat to robots hitting each other).

It's precisely because they are children's toys that is at the heart of the issue. Michael Bay has aimed this film at the teenage market, but the toys are aimed at a younger audience. Add in the lazy scriptwriting, racial stereotyping, misogyny and the relentless, mind-numbing violence and you can see why people are getting pissed.

I'm starting to feel like a total broken record - the film dynamic hasn't really changed from the first one. If you didn't like that, you weren't going to like the second two. Not sure why it's so hard for people to say "no" to seeing a movie they don't want to see.

 

[Omar Saad]

I would add to the discussion and say though that I'm sorry but how the f'ck is popcorn entertainment an excuse for bad storytelling. I'm fed up of people saying its just entertainment, its Michael Bay. There is no excuse for spending 200+ mil on bad scriptwriting. A film can be popcorn entertainment and still be a damn good thrilling ride. Far more people would be excited about this kind of film if it was tight action and dramatic storytelling, rather than just robo-porn.

You hit it right on the head, IMO. The original Star Wars trilogy, the first 3 Indy films, the latest Batman films, and a few others have shown that a "just for fun" work of entertainment can still employ a professional level of story telling. It's clear, by this point in his career, that Bay either doesn't have the skill or intention to do that.

 

[Jason Svatos]

I'm pretty over this argument at this point... I'm obviously in the camp of people taking it for what it is, and thoroughly enjoying it for that. I'll leave with this once again though - if you have such a strong idea of what a summer blockbuster SHOULD be, then go out and make it. I think we're all here because we're storytellers in one regard or another, so you've obviously got the know-how and the tools, and lord knows you are surrounded by tallent.

Seriously. I'm not saying it to be condescending. If you know what a summer action film needs to be, make one. Show Bay how it's done.