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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Final Cut Pro X Released

So in short, whether you're a believer in Apple or not, it sounds like the following is a fair assessment:

Consumers
NOW: FCPX will probably suit your needs, and there are also lots of other packages out there to choose from.

Professional Post
NOW: Either stick with FCP6/7 (both of which are end-of-life), or switch to another package aimed at the professional market such as Avid, Adobe, Autodesk, Assimilate, etc.
FUTURE: Maybe Apple or third parties make FCPX a viable platform. Timeline and specific implementations have not yet been comminicated. Obviously, whatever package you use in the meantime may continue to serve your needs, and (except FCP6/7) may also have new releases.


Fair?

Most of us agree that FCPX is not suitable for the professional post community at the present time. Most of us also agree that at some undetermined time in the future, a combination of Apple and third parties will probably patch the product to a level that it can function in a professional post environment. No idea when, or how well everything will work together at that point.

The back-and-forth of "FCPX doesn't serve my needs today" and "Yeah, but someday it could be great!" is starting to feel repetitious. If FCPX evolves into a product that is substantially better than whatever package folks decide to use now, I'm sure some people will come back to it. For now, there seems to be wide consensus that it is not suitable.

No surprise, but personally I believe that moving forward, the professional post community will be best served by companies who make the needs of that community their number one priority. These companies aren't as big as Apple, but they too make some great software, and they too possess great opportunities to innovate moving forward. Perhaps a new dark horse might even emerge (Foundry anyone)?

Whatever the case, you can be sure that many no longer assume that FCP will remain the dominant package moving forward. The future is wide open...
 
Alexander - Not trying to argue... I didn't misunderstand you, I acknowledged what you are saying and agree 100% with its validity. I get that you can't do today what you did yesterday and last year on FCP7. And I have no argument for any reason why it was left out. I am not a software developer but I have somewhat casually studied XML and it does seem to be that a more extensive, as well as easier to implement, set of data sharing methodologies might be developed. I am only guessing here, but I am wondering if it was harder to implement the XML exchange due to the new underlying structure of FCPX (no simple "port") and, if such a "more extensive" capability is envisioned, then the coding is more extensive and getting it to the SDK will require more work.

As for whether it will be a part of Resolve or anything else, if it a) seamlessly "understands" normal XML it should work fine. But, if b) it also gives Resolve an SDK with even more powerful sharing capabilities then, should they choose to use them, perhaps both applications would become more powerful as a result. Again, only conjecture.

To reiterate, not only is this conjecture but even if it is remotely accurate, it doesn't slove the problem/mystery of the missing XML today.
 
Tim Morten said:
Whatever the case, you can be sure that many no longer assume that FCP will remain the dominant package moving forward. The future is wide open...
Click to expand...

Bingo! Regardless if FCPX actually becomes a powerful professional editing tool, how can you as editing professional trust that company anymore. You have to take your business to a company that puts you, the professional, first. DSLR camera companies have no problem doing this. They design amazing cameras for professionals, that have an auto feature for consumers. That's all Apple had to do. Make it for professionals, but sell in bulk for max profit.

Actions speak louder than words. I know AVID is serious about professionals. I have no idea what Apple thinks.
 
Jared Caldwell said:
More hopeful news and something that has further pissed me off: http://www.studiodaily.com/main/news/headlines/Should-You-Upgrade-to-Final-Cut-Pro-X_13261.html

So Apple only released the API to specific developers early on so that we can be charged $500 for features that should have been the first ones developed in FCPX? Now THAT is something truly upsetting.
Click to expand...

Honestly, if this article doesn't calm most people down just a little bit, then I suppose nothing will. :frown:
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Honestly, if this article doesn't calm most people down just a little bit, then I suppose nothing will. :frown:
Click to expand...

It's good to read that Apple is working on this stuff. Still the way they have handled this launch is a total disaster. I do sincerely hope Final Cut Pro X lives up to the initial hype.
 
IAN SUN said:
Finally got a response from Apple.ca. With A bunch of cut and paste text he informed me that he cannot give me a refund as its against App store policy.
Needless to say I asked for an escalation.
Click to expand...

Ian,

Screw 'em... Cancel the charge on you card.. Force them to make their case. You will win.. You have THOUSANDS of people behind you. App store policy my ass.. While Apple may THINK they rule the world.. They don't.

Jay
 
Erich Ocean said:
Jeffery Harrell - What went wrong with Final Cut Pro X http://t.co/5qNC3yX
Click to expand...

Good article. The end pretty much sums it up:

It’s not “I don’t like it,” or “I don’t prefer it” or even “I choose not to make the change because it’s too burdensome for too little benefit.” It’s “Because of the choices you guys made, we literally can’t use your product any more.”
Click to expand...
 
Final Cut Pro X: A Closed System?

Final Cut Pro X: A Closed System?

Despite what has become an exhausting discussion regarding the release of Final Cut Pro X around the world (from the App Store to Conan), it is clear that:

1. The first iteration of Final Cut Pro X should have included basic, current, industry-standard, functionality-- XML, OMF, external monitoring, Multicam and Legacy support-- regardless of whether Apple has plans to phase out "archaic" techniques (such as EDL) and replace them with new ones. The keyword here is "transition".

2. It is also clear that, given Apple's extensive efforts to take over NAB in order to reassure thousands of professionals about their commitment to support professional workflows, Apple also should have maintained better communication with the industry regarding a roadmap to Final Cut Pro X and any upcoming support from third-party solutions (especially if they insisted on an "architecture-first" kind of early release).

3. Yes, bold change is always difficult, and while our industry (much like print) is undergoing drastic, rapid, change, Apple must recognize the investments (in education, infrastructure, technologies) that individuals and companies have made to long-standing methods, and that at the very least, killing Final Cut Studio (while the transition happens) is a very bad idea.

I am one those people who had very high expectations of the software and was terribly disappointed with its release. People talk about how "only REDusers" are complaining because FCPX is the future of editing. While I agree with the premise that FCS is in need of an overhaul (the gamma issue alone was sufficient justification for such), it is naive and simply idiotic to suggest that with innovation comes the end to specialized skills (color correction and sound being two prominent examples). While I have been following RED for over three years (and spend a significant portion of my day following this forum), I am not an owner yet (emphasis on yet) and depend strongly on other, more limited, technologies (like DSLRs) to make a living and expand my skills (until SCARLET and EPIC-S arrive). To some in this debate, I am not a "pro" for the simple fact that I am a small shop and work with highly-deficient, line-skipped, artifact-filled, resolution-crippled, footage. In philosophical terms, it is the belief of some on one side of the debate that there are vastly more of these shops in existence and in emergence, and that everyone else, the "elitists" are out of touch and on their way out to extinction.

Nothing could be further from the truth!

I can't remember the last time I delivered a product without its having gone through other applications (requiring a completely different and specialized skills set), such as Color, Logic/Soundtrack Pro, Cinema Tools, Motion or Compressor. Having spent the last year working exclusively in Color has allowed me to gain even more respect and admiration for the rich, collaborative, nature of filmmaking, and when I heard rumors of Apple's desire to reinvent (literally) the (color) wheel, I refused to believe it. I defended Apple against all conspirators and maintained that, under no circumstances would Apple commit the grave and unfathomable mistake of alienating colorists and sound engineers, who are as important to a professional workflow as an editor herself. Even when I sat in the audience at this year's FCP SuperMeet, I applauded Apple for having improved upon the simple three-way color corrector and added vignettes and other secondary controls (I thought, this will be a great addition to an overhauled version of Color, namely, Color X!).

It is now official and we now know that Color is gone, and so are Cinema Tools and Soundtrack Pro. An argument could be made that Final Cut Pro needed to include a more powerful toolset of audio and color controls, but never did I think it would be at the expense of other, specialized, standalone applications! I spent a year working constantly on Color, trying to develop my skills in preparation of a new upgrade to Color, or even Resolve, but I can't image truly professional colorists who spent so much money on surface controls. What happens to them? Obviously, they will migrate to Resolve (as will I, as an early, aspiring colorist), and while it may be a slap in the face for those who invested time into learning Color, they will adapt and be successful using DaVinci (or Quantel). The biggest problem, as I see it, is Apple's apparent philosophy on the unimportance of these artisans and their skill sets, which is blatantly illustrated by killing Color (and the other apps), and shrugging anyone's concerns while responding "Everything just changed in post, go color and mix inside FCPX".

There are really a lot of exciting improvements to FCP7 in FCPX, and while we now know that some of these deficiencies will be brought back in upcoming updates, it is the inherent philosophy apparent behind the release of Final Cut Pro X that has me most concerned. I would like to hear from professional colorists and their take on Apple's disposal of the color wheel, replaced by the linear Color Board. I am all for improving upon the wheel-- but a reinvention? What are the advantages (mathematical and in terms of color theory) to doing away with a circular representation of colors in Final Cut Pro X?

There is no doubt Apple's release of FCPX was an utter failure and tragedy, regardless of where you stand on the discussion, but I believe they can recover from this if they are clear about their intentions. In the end, I hope Apple listens and reinstates the basic functionality all of us need and depend on (be it a temporary inclusion of "archaic" features, or the release of more powerful solutions), sooner rather than later. I am already looking at DaVinci's Resolve to continue my development (unless Color is brought back better than ever), but what I want the most is a clear roadmap from Apple so I can end this period of confusion and act accordingly-- by staying and waiting for those upcoming features, or migrating elsewhere.

All the best,

Fabián Aguirre

--
www.saurosdigital.com
 
So if Final Cut X is the end of the line for Final Cut, (Which it sounds like it will be if it takes them a year to come out with a radically improved version.) and if Lion doesn't fix the gamma issues, then will this be the end for the whole Mac platform for serious video work? I don't think Apple appreciates how close to the precipice they may be wandering.
 
Mac won't die because of FCPX. Don't be ridiculous. Avid works fine on Mac, so does Pro Tools etc.

I'm invested in Avid, so none of this affects me. BUT the discussion regarding it being a "pro" tool or not... consider this.

A facility that has over $500,000 tied up in SR, HD, D5, Digi Beta decks (at least $500k), hundreds of thousands of dollars of shared storage infrastructure and now ALL OF IT is useless if they use FCPX. They will never upgrade because they can't re-open old projects if they do. How do they get their edits and assets from FCPX to DaVinci, Baselight, Pablo, Pro Tools, Fairlight....? Millions of dollars of equipment and infrastructure, not to mention workflow and efficiency, has just been castrated by Apple.

Its all very well to say publishing to FB and Youtube is "the future" but we are not talking about "the future" right now. We are talking about meeting next week's deadline to Nat Geo, Discovery, BBC, HBO, etc, etc. We all need TAPE machines to master to and ingest from, because that is the standard. You can bitch all you want about how tapeless is the future, and it may well be, but right now, it is not.

How you take a reasonably well functioning program like FCP7 and turn around FCPX is beyond me. At the very least it should have maintained all existing functionality.

So yeah... I bought a Toyota today. They told me the engine will be arriving sometime in the next 12 months, maybe. As if you would tolerate that!

FCPX is, as it stands now, NOT a professional tool. If it can't or won't talk to existing standards, it is not professional. To all the "FCPX is great" guys... what will you do when I bring a documentary to your edit house that needs to be mastered to SR and.... gasp.... you can't?

I'd be making a list of all facilities that use FCPX and walking the other way to an Avid facility. Stay with the sinking ship at your own risk.
 
Jared Caldwell said:
Editing is a skill, not something you install on your computer. FCP is an excellent tool to practice with as you hone your editing skills. You should be able to pick up any other tool pretty easily if you know how to actually edit, so I wouldn't sweat it.
Click to expand...

Exactly, even if Apple bundled FCX with every new mac, that doesn't give you the skill off composition and timing.
 
Jim Collins said:
So if Final Cut X is the end of the line for Final Cut, (Which it sounds like it will be if it takes them a year to come out with a radically improved version.) and if Lion doesn't fix the gamma issues, then will this be the end for the whole Mac platform for serious video work? I don't think Apple appreciates how close to the precipice they may be wandering.
Click to expand...

There's Resolve and Smoke for Mac which are going to keep users on the Mac platform. Also, many people have a lot of money invested in Mac hardware, and most compelling alternatives to FCP X (other than Vegas Pro and Edius Neo) are available on Mac OS X as well. (albeit with lower performance) Otherwise, I can't think of one technical advantage over using Linux or Windows.
 
Apparently there is some secret back door method to get XML out of this thing, any one know what or how ?
 
Paul Nordin said:
As of the release date of FCPX, Red Giant Software had not even seen the software, let alone been provided advance access to Apples's new APIs. I've seen the same thing from at least one additonal well-known plugin provider.
Click to expand...

Too bad. We really dig Andrew and the Red Giant guys. Someone let them know they are not alone....
 
Jarred Land said:
Too bad. We really dig Andrew and the Red Giant guys. Someone let them know they are not alone....
Click to expand...

Ha! Thanks for checking in, Jarred :) And have a good weekend, all... Hope the RED team is getting more rest than the poor FCP X team!

Problem is, you guys are probably stressed out about deadlines, openness, satisfying customer demands, answering emails...
...and the FCP X guys are passed out after drinking magnums worth of champagne out of papier-mache flutes made from the printed out emails of the the peasants who don't understand their vision.

Maybe not. Well, the papier-mache part anyway.

BTW I am playing with the app and have (a lot of) questions of how to get basic stuff to work - but am posting them in the other thread now because this one goes by so darn fast.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
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