Final Cut Pro X Released

[Terry VerHaar]

How can Walter Murch even use his "pro" setup with FCPX? LOL

You stated "Even more I've been waiting for years for it to support my workflow..." implying that FCP, as it was (which WM did use), was not up to your "pro" standards.

It will be interesting to see who does come out in support of the changes.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Why in the FUCK are people saying that Apple is new to the game and they will make progress?!?!?!? I'm so upset at this dumb ass release but the funny part about all this was that I didn't even get my hopes up. After reading everyones frustration I just felt that I had to rip Apple another hole! I feel as if my hands are tied just because I've been using Apple since the 90's and never ever even bothered looking at another platform or editing software. That is after I dropped Media 100. All I can say is the fucking ship is sinking and I'm in the muthatfucker! Thanks Apple!

LOL - after the software has been in public hands for less than a day... oh, well. :emote_headwall:

 

[Brandon J.F.]

Will it meet even most of my own needs? I have no real idea yet.

What is your current workflow?

 

[Bruce Allen]

If you don't like it, that's fine. I just find it so annoying that people are egotistical enough to say "If it doesn't work for me, it isn't pro." If it doesn't work for me, well then, I will find something that does. I am not defending whether FCPX is "the way to go." Like I said, I haven't even made that decision for myself yet. I am surely not going to try and make it for you! I am simply calling out the people who define the state of the art by their standards alone.

Terry, I think you're trying to redefine the word Pro.

I personally don't care about the word Pro. Prosumer is fine by me as long as it works.

But seriously, if FCP X in its current iteration is "Pro" then iMovie is "Pro" and an iPhone is a "Pro" camera. Just depends on how low the bar you set on the word Pro. Nothing to get emotional about.

So, um, why are you getting hung up about professional people calling this software "not pro" because it doesn't have EDL or XML export options at present - and to get an OMF to a mix requires a $500 3rd party plugin? Where it is "not recommended" to use two desktop monitors plus a video monitor (eg the config most editors like and Walter Murch had in that pic)? What kind of weird "Pro" projects do you work on where this would not be a major problem?

It will be interesting to come back to visit this situation in a month, 3 months, a year...

By that time it may very well be a professional application. And your point is?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Rob Castiglione]

Hey Brandon. I think that is a pretty good assessment.

 

[Ivan G]

Just in case some of those that missed it


Chapter Markers
Apple seems to have done away with DVD Studio Pro, but you can now burn DVDs from directly within Final Cut Pro. In earlier versions of FCP you could add markers and include them as chapter markers upon export. This feature has inconventintely been left out of FCPX, making the ability to architect a commercial DVD fairly infeasible.

Limited Export Settings
You are limited in the formats and sizes you can export from FCPX. Whereas before you could export a variety of codecs and formats out of FCP, you now must complete more specific encoding in Compressor.

No Export for Hi-Res JPGs
If you want high resolution screenshots you must save them as TIFF or PNG files. JPG stills can be saved out of FCPX but they will be low resolution files.

No Support for EDL

No XML Import
Word on the street is this will be accomplished with a future third party plugin (for an additional fee, certainly).

No OMF export
Again, this should be able to be completed with a third party plugin sometime in the future

No Native Support for Red Raw files
With the wide range of codecs and file formats that FCPX nateively supports, it may be a bit of a surprise that they don’t nateively support this now popular video format.

No Multicam
The intial release will not have support for multicam, but sources close to Apple say that it will be included in future updates. If you use Multicam often, the lack of this feature could be a dealbreaker.

Inability to Open Projects Saved From Previous FCP Versions
The initial release will not allow you to open up projects saved from previous Final Cut Pro versions. There may be some ability to import legacy projects in future updates, but for this reason alone it makes sense to keep both FCPX and an older version of FCP on your machine.

No Capture from Tape or Output to Tape
Tape is slowly being phased out in most forms of production, in favor of solid state and file based systems. It’s no surprise that this one wasn’t included, but it may be a deterent for those that are still working in a tape based environment. UPDATE: You can capture from camera, but does not appear to have batch capture function.

Limited Options for Arranging Your Workspace
Say goodbye to editing on 2 screens and sending the video signal out to a third monitor. The workspace is primarily “locked” and windows cannot be rearranged.

No Native Support for Third Party Plugins
We can anticipate this being a feature in immediate updates to FCPX. For now however, you are relegated to Final Cut Pro X’s built in plugins and filters until the SDK for developers is released. Your FCP 7 and earlier compatible plug-ins WILL NOT work in FCPX. UPDATE: Noise Industries reports an update to it’s FX Factory bundle with over 140 effects, transitions and generators for FCPX.

Support for External Monitoring?
Early reports state no support for external monitoring on a calibrated video display.
UPDATE: There is external monitoring with an AJA card and new drivers.

 

[Rob Castiglione]

Is anyone using Premiere Pro on a mac and having a happy experience? Is it stable and fluid to edit with? I am completely unfamiliar with this software but am trying to decide between Avid and Premiere Pro. Just checking what options I have.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

J
Support for External Monitoring?
Early reports state no support for external monitoring on a calibrated video display.
UPDATE: There is external monitoring with an AJA card and new drivers.

"AJA has a beta driver up on their site for FCPX. It is not the same as working with FCP7- video output is from desktop preview and deck support is from their own application, not FCPX. Nevertheless, I applaud their work. They have a PDF to walk users through setup. They recommend installing the beta driver on on a different boot disk or partition than the one you run FCP7 on. Sounds like good advice..." --- http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/2649

 

[J Davis]

It could be a tactical decision to omit features. A way of gently easing away from the pro market instead of waving a flag.

They are certainly not dropping the ball when it comes to iPads and iPhones

 

[ChristopherKenworthy]

People have started using the word 'ego'. We're only a few posts away from a flame war. So, calmly...

Pro means you get paid. Prosumer or semi-pro means you probably get paid some of the time.

It looks unlikely that FCPX (as it currently stands) would be suitable for most of the paid work I do, and for most of the work done by anybody I know in the industry. I won't assume it's the same for everybody, but it's an indication. But can I really imagine a world where people pay me for posting to Facebook, rather than providing a full set of standard deliverables? Not really.

I picture all the Scarlet users there will be in a year or so, and wonder what the hell they'll be editing on. If FCPX had retained all old features and added new ones, then FCPX would have been the app of choice. Instead, they took away features that they had loudly and proudly announced some years ago. If they do plan to update FCPX with R3D support, EDLs, the original Color and so on, then all will be well. Otherwise, if I am to get paid for work, I am going elsewhere.

Interested to hear what people make of the magnetic timeline. It looks like it might be irritating or brilliant; I can't tell.

 

[Brad Webb]

Someone should tell apple that their April fools joke is a few months to late.

 

[Bruce Allen]

Is anyone using Premiere Pro on a mac and having a happy experience? Is it stable and fluid to edit with? I am completely unfamiliar with this software but am trying to decide between Avid and Premiere Pro. Just checking what options I have.

I use both and they are both good. PM me if you have questions.

My 2c for stable and fluid would be Avid - but Premiere can't be beat for the price - practically free if you already use Photoshop and After Effects. And it does some things amazingly well. It's also getting quite good at importing Avid projects, which is fun.

Ah well... I was hoping that FCP X was going to cause Adobe and Avid to say "oh boy, we gotta work doubletime!" but now my only hope is for Avid and Adobe to compete with each other for the next year or so until FCP X gets the basic features in place!

Only problem is - if I have to buy Automatic Duck for FCP X for $495 just to get OMF export... FCP X plus all the plugins needed to make it work properly might get quite costly!

Interested to hear what people make of the magnetic timeline. It looks like it might be irritating or brilliant; I can't tell.

I think it's fun stuff. Want to see if Adobe / Avid can copy it but make it better

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Terry VerHaar]

What is your current workflow?

It doesn't really matter from your perspective, does it? Because it probably isn't the same as yours. My workflow will probably evolve with the changes in FCPX as I see there being some real benefits. I imagine I'll start R3Ds in RCX or Storm for a one-light and then output to ProRes for editing in FCPX. Most of my color grading and sound needs will probably be handled by FCP-X but maybe I'll experiment with seeing if ST Pro will still work, or maybe Logic. I haven't looked at Compressor yet but I imagine it will accommodate my needs for output. It might not work for everybody but no one is claiming it will. I was just in a studio this morning where they have about 8 FCP suites. They didn't talk about changing but I imagine they will transition slowly, continuing to use FCP7 (as will I) as they work through the transition.

One thing people seem to be forgetting - if Apple had held back on release for another 3-6 months, in order to add the "missing" features, it would be another 3-6 months that we all wouldn't have to start getting up to speed on the interface. Think of it as a beta period in which you get to take part.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

It doesn't really matter from your perspective, does it? Because it probably isn't the same as yours.

No, it was an honest question. Thanks for sharing. I'm not attacking you for not agreeing. I don't think anyone here is. Relax

 

[andrewhake]

This stuff is just so mind numbing...

If you like what you see, but would like some additional features/changes, www.apple.com/feedback. EDLs, XML, sure that stuff is important for a lot of people's current workflows, request it if you want it.

If you don't think it will fit your workflow, it doesn't mean it isn't Pro software, it means it doesn't fit your workflow, pro is one of the most meaningless words in our language these days, especially in creative industries. Don't think because you use/own an expensive camera that you are pro and everything else is not. You are not professional, you are just confused. Stop using an arbitrary word to describe something in one word that needs to be described in paragraphs. AND, stop freaking the fuck out.

So much misinformation and complete ignorance to the actual editing process, people seem to want an end to end workflow tool, and not an editing tool.

 

[Chris Reynolds]

FCP X. What an absolute joke!!

I can except that it might support edls and xml is the future but why on earth would you release an editing package until it does support these. Avid just had its best day of sales in 10 years!!

One timeline!! How on earth is this pro? There is not one project I have cut this year that I could have done with one timeline.

Rather than concentrating on all the wanky features like Content Auto-Analysis and Web sharing, get the basics right that us Pro editor use all day every day.
There is a reason that every editing package to date has source and record viewers!!

Pro apps would allow you to save your project in a pro environment like oh, xsan (clearly you don't know about this product apple maybe you should look it up!!) or even to an external raid.

On the positive side. All the editors at my post house had the funniest breakfast ever this morning, checking out FCP X

Avid just sold another 8 licences of MC to us.

Cheers, Chris

 

[Tim Morten]

One thing people seem to be forgetting - if Apple had held back on release for another 3-6 months, in order to add the "missing" features, it would be another 3-6 months that we all wouldn't have to start getting up to speed on the interface. Think of it as a beta period in which you get to take part.

No offense, but I wouldn't be keen to pay to be a beta tester when there are other full featured solutions out there, and there isn't even a road map for what features will be added, when they will be added, or whether they will suit existing needs. Their new editing interface could look like Angelina Jolie dipped in melted butter, it's still not enough to make up for all that they left out.

 

[ChristopherKenworthy]

If you don't think it will fit your workflow, it doesn't mean it isn't Pro software, it means it doesn't fit your workflow, pro is one of the most meaningless words in our language these days, especially in creative industries.

As I said above, Pro means you get paid. That's what the dictionary says. A handful of people may get paid for work they do on their iPhones. Lots of people get paid for working with a DSLR. So, yes, you can probably do some paid work with this. But for those of us who do paid work most days, this just isn't good enough. That's probably why people are using the word Pro and getting all edgy.

And if there appears to be a freakout, it's probably because a lot of us have use FCP for a decade, bought a lot of FCP stuff, and suddenly we're faced with, "Hey, don't worry, you can use the old software to edit Red." I don't like clinging to something that will rapidly become obsolete.

Got to get to work now, but I look forward to hearing from people who've actually used FCPX. More details would be good. If it's absolutely revolutionary, let's push for R3D support and the rest of the stuff we need. Otherwise, Premiere is turning out to be a pleasant ride.

 

[Chris Reynolds]

This stuff is just so mind numbing...

If you like what you see, but would like some additional features/changes, www.apple.com/feedback


If you don't think it will fit your workflow, it doesn't mean it isn't Pro software, it means it doesn't fit your workflow, pro is one of the most meaningless words in our language these days, especially in creative industries. Don't think because you use/own an expensive camera that you are pro and everything else is not. You are not professional, you are just confused. Stop using an arbitrary word to describe something in one word that needs to be described in paragraphs. AND, stop freaking the fuck out.

Thats kind of fine if you are a one man band, but if you are a large company that has invested lots on money, time and effort on hardware and systems and suddenly they completely break your workflow to the point of not being able to make it work no matter how hard you try. That has the tendency to freak people out!!

How would you like it if Epic was bought out and had scene detection and all the wonderfull new feature that you might use one day not every day but they decide to drop timecode and metadata and while they are at it you could only record one take per card!! Think you might get a few camera assist freaking out!!

Cheers, Chris (just turn avid editor)

 

[Terry VerHaar]

No, it was an honest question. Thanks for sharing. I'm not attacking you for not agreeing. I don't think anyone here is. Relax

And I took it as such. Hence the explanation. No offense taken. I think there are several people who are misconstruing my comments as a defense of Apple or a some sort of FCP-X promotion. They are not. I could really care less whether any single person in here decides to use FCP-X. (Except as far as it affects Apple's willingness to keep developing it.) I'll make my own decision and, perhaps I'll be one of the ones who ultimately doesn't choose it.

Someone made fun of "getting paid to post to FaceBook" but the irony is, the demand for video for the web is growing rapidly and it is that kind of attitude that often causes people to miss market trends, and major opportunities. In the future, there may be a lot of money to be made making high quality video for "posting to FaceBook" etc. And it will have to be done efficiently or it can't pay for itself. There will always be a Hollywood, big budget feature film industry (I think), so if the small number of people in that segment are the only "professionals," I probably won't be one. In my view, however, that doesn't mean I am not "pro." I don't care about the titles either; just about the condescension and lack of humility that comes with putting oneself above others based on one's own subjective criteria.

I have spent 20 years, give or take, in marketing. That doesn't mean I know everything about it or that I am justified in belittling the way you go about promoting your own business or the methods and tools you use. There are very probably things I can learn from you because you have a different perspective. "Best practices" evolve the same way as all life forms, through evolution. No one has all the answers.

But I diverge... :001_smile:

I think I'll retire from this discussion and come back in 6 months.