Sound-Devices MixPre-D

[Ariel Weiss]

Hi everybody
Anyone got one? I'm thinking upgrading (sell) my mixpre and buy the "D" instead, might work well with EPIC's in-out module as it has digital
out or for now maybe use it to record on laptop. Do not know if it possible, someone knows?
Deanan, If you could chime in, this mixer-a\d convertor, when recorded to the in-out module as straight digital, could replace a digital recorder quality wise?
Thanks,
Ariel

http://sounddevices.com/products/mixpre-d.htm

 

[oleg kaizerman]

i don't see why not , quality wise - it will give you what mixpre and its ato d converter quality - good enough for almost everything . you also can use it with any audio recorder which have digital input or analog one or laptop with its usb connection

 

[Mike P.]

Also considering this. Anyone know if the preamps and limiters are as good as the 302 (or rather, are the regular-MixPre's preamps/limiters as good as the 302)? Also has anyone used one of these (or regular Mixpre) pumped right into the R1?

 

[D Fuller]

I can't tell you if the limiters and preamps are as good as the 302, I don't own one of those. But I do own a Mix Pre-D, and it sounds very good to me. I have run it directly into my R1, and that works as well as I hoped it would. It also makes a very clean path into my Mac and Macbook Pro through the USB port. It just works. Plug it in, go set the input to be Mix Pre-D and it's there.

 

[Ariel Weiss]

Thanks, i'm glad to know those things. Btw, when you record with it on the macbook pro, what software do you use?

I can't tell you if the limiters and preamps are as good as the 302, I don't own one of those. But I do own a Mix Pre-D, and it sounds very good to me. I have run it directly into my R1, and that works as well as I hoped it would. It also makes a very clean path into my Mac and Macbook Pro through the USB port. It just works. Plug it in, go set the input to be Mix Pre-D and it's there.

 

[Ariel Weiss]

Thanks, i'm glad to know those things. Btw, when you record with it on the macbook pro, what software do you use?

I can't tell you if the limiters and preamps are as good as the 302, I don't own one of those. But I do own a Mix Pre-D, and it sounds very good to me. I have run it directly into my R1, and that works as well as I hoped it would. It also makes a very clean path into my Mac and Macbook Pro through the USB port. It just works. Plug it in, go set the input to be Mix Pre-D and it's there.

 

[D Fuller]

I've used Adobe Audition and Soundtrack. But the Mix Pre-D shows up at the OS level, so I expect it would work with anything you wanted to use.

 

[Ariel Weiss]

Thank you, sounds great, I will order one.

I've used Adobe Audition and Soundtrack. But the Mix Pre-D shows up at the OS level, so I expect it would work with anything you wanted to use.

 

[Dabling Harward]

Love mine. Fact that you can mount it from the top or the bottom is awesome. I Put it on the front end of all my cameras now. Very simple to set up and use. Love the fact that you can use the returns as two more inputs for a total of 4. Been bugging Jon at Sounddevices to make this a 4 track recorder and he'd make my day. Stick some timecode in it and we'd be all set. I know he can put his people on it and make a nice little portable box that could do that. He'd win with the independent filmmakers that have minimal crew to take care of sound.

With 2 AA Duracell Procells I get about of couple of hours of use before the battery light starts to blink. I think I've used it for a good hour while it was blinking with no worries. I've set the limiters at it's max. When I set it lower it seemed to squash loud music too soon.

As far as using it as a computer interface, it's good for temporary work but not long term stuff. First of all you can't hook up your speakers to the line outputs. You can only monitor out the headphone output. So just use your headphones or hook up your speakers to the HP out. And since it's not USB powered, you'll go through some batteries using it as a permanent interface. Get the USB pre for that.

No drivers to download for computer use is great. Just plug it in and the computer sees it. It automatically sees what sample rate you're working in as well.


Funny story how I got the very first one from Coffey Sound. Sounddevices tweeted that the first batch had been shipped to vendors. I called Coffey Sound and they said that it wouldn't be in for a while and they wouldn't know when it would be available. I said Jon tweeted they went out and asked to check their stock. Sure enough it was sitting in a box waiting for me to come get it. Sure glad I did cause now there's a long waiting list.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Been bugging Jon at Sounddevices to make this a 4 track recorder and he'd make my day. Stick some timecode in it and we'd be all set.

You basically just described the 744t, which has been out for years. I think the preamps are pretty much identical between the two products. Bear in mind there's a lot of potential options and settings that have to be done in a 4-track timecode device, and you have to have meters, menus, and buttons to get there. You need the extra room on the 744t to make this practical.

With 2 AA Duracell Procells I get about of couple of hours of use before the battery light starts to blink.

Don't use Procells for anything mission-critical like this. Use Eveready Lithium-Ion batteries. Shop around, and you can find them very inexpensively. In a device like a mixer, I've had them last for almost an entire 12-hour day (being careful to shut it down during breaks).

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

With 2 AA Duracell Procells I get about of couple of hours of use before the battery light starts to blink.

Same here, but when using Varta batteries it runs two to three times longer.

 

[Dabling Harward]

You basically just described the 744t, which has been out for years. I think the preamps are pretty much identical between the two products. Bear in mind there's a lot of potential options and settings that have to be done in a 4-track timecode device, and you have to have meters, menus, and buttons to get there. You need the extra room on the 744t to make this practical.

Marc, You're right. I did describe the 744 but in a much smaller and simpler form factor. After you see how easy it is to mount the MixPre D on a camera in any configuration, you'll be saying "744 what?" You need a degree in specialized mounting to mount a 744 conveniently on a camera. For run and gun and simplicity of use, this kills the 744. No menu structures to deal with, no carrying around a sony charger etc. It's just plug and play simple. If the Zoom and Tascam can record internally, (and they're tiny) Jon can make this record internally in his sleep. Just like he put a recorder in the 552, he could also do this in the MixPre D.

The 744 is great in a bag carried by a sound guy. the Mix Pre D is great for the single shooter who needs to keep things simple and keep it moving.

And when Jon does make this a recorder (hint hint) we'll all be saying why didn't he do this a long time ago.:smile5:

744 is not going to do this...

 

[Marc Wielage]

I don't think there's room for four XLR input jacks, four XLR output jacks, four pots, four sets of meters, and a readout to set all the different parameters (timecode, limiters, file names, etc.) in a box that small. This is what you get when you get the 744t (and the 788t, which is essentially the same size). There are physical limitations with jacks, potentiometers, and power supplies.

My advice is to use a separate person to run sound, and let them be responsible for carrying and running it.

 

[Dabling Harward]

I don't think there's room for four XLR input jacks, four XLR output jacks, four pots, four sets of meters, and a readout to set all the different parameters (timecode, limiters, file names, etc.) in a box that small. This is what you get when you get the 744t (and the 788t, which is essentially the same size). There are physical limitations with jacks, potentiometers, and power supplies.

That's like saying RED can't make a tiny camera that shoots 5k at huge frame rates that has timecode and tons of other features. Nope, just can't be done. You have to have a camera the size of a refrigerator to have that much functionality. That's just 1980s way of thinking.

The MixPreD already has four inputs. 2 XLR and two line. Are you telling me that Zoom and Tascam is smarter than SoundDevices and they're the only ones that can put a recorder in a small box. Marc, this reminds me of our other conversation where you told me that a real timecode slate was the only way to go and that the iPad was not a viable option to slate the camera. Now we see iPad slates on numerous sets.

My advice is to use a separate person to run sound, and let them be responsible for carrying and running it.

I know your advice is to have a sound guy, but you're missing the point of the MixPreD. This little beast is for those shoots when you are the camera operator and the sound guy. Trust me, I'd hire you for every shoot if I could, but we all know that's not reality. I've used both the 744 and the 788. Don't know why you keep bringing those into this scenario.

SoundDevices made the MixPreD camera mountable. They opened up more possibilities to the single shooter when they made this change. Now they can expound on this even further and throw an SD card into the mix. And yes it can all fit in this little box. The Pix 240 is the same size and it does video, audio, and timecode so I'm not sure why you think it has to be bigger in order to work.

I'm of the new school of thinking that it can be done smaller and better.
It's 2012 in a minute. We're a sorry lot if we can't figure this one out in a minute.:arf:

Marc, as always, I appreciate your knowledge and expertise.

 

[Dabling Harward]

It could essentially be a camera mountable version of this.

Sonosax SX R4

6 analog / 8 digital inputs compact light-weighted hard disk audio recorder

8 recording tracks on hard disk and either 2 recording tracks or Mirroring on CF Card. The ideal companion for on location multi-track recording, documentaries, classical music. Perfect Gain control and advanced linking capabilities.

Recording capabilities: 44,1 up to 192kHz @ 24bits and 16 bits ( dithering )
File format: *.WAV with BWF chunk and iXML metadata
File structure: Mono - Stereo - Polyphonic

8 Recording tracks on the HD, 2 Recording tracks or mirroring on the CF Card.
Comprehensive Cross-matrix system for easy routing and mixing
User configurable Monitoring

Small and robust construction
Friendly user interface, comprehensive and intuitive menu structure
Battery or external DC operated

KEY FEATURES
4x electronically balanced Mic/Line Input with RF Filter, XLR connectors
Low noise, large bandwidth semi-discreet microphone preamplifier
48V Phantom for Mic powering
Pre LF Cut for rough wind conditions, PAD, Phase reversal
High quality Limiter on each input, Led level indicators
Channel linking ( on gain ) : 1 to 2 or 4 / 2 to 3 or 4 / 3 to 4
ideal for one or two stereo pairs or M/S pair and even Soundfield B-Format
1x stereo unbalanced adjustable Line input on TA3 connector
4 x AES Digital input ( 8 digital channels )
Sampling rate from 44,1 up to 192kHz at 24bits, including NTSC Pull Up / Pull Down 0.1%
TimeCode In & Out, all formats, follow the pull up/down
Wordclock In & Out, Video Sync In all format including Tri-level & Bi-level sync
Unbalanced Stereo/Mono pre-mix Line Outputs user configurable, on TA3 and Mini Jack for camera Link, wireless feeds or additional monitoring
Headphone out on 1/4" Stereo Jack
Machined aluminum housing
Powered by six AA ( LR6 ) batteries or external 6 - 18 VDC
Dimensions 180 x 140 x 50 mm / 7,09" x 5,5" x 1,96"
Weight 800 grams (1,75 lbs) without batteries
990 grams ( 2,18 lbs ) with 6 AA rechargeable batteries

 

[Marc Wielage]

The MixPreD already has four inputs. 2 XLR and two line.

Not 4 simultaneous XLR inputs, not 4 XLR outputs, not 4 channels of meters, not a 4-channel mixer, and not 4 level controls, no. Plus you again neglect the battery usage problem. Go out and buy four pots, 8 jacks, 4 meters, and some battery holders and tell me how big a box would be to hold this many parts. Sometimes, you need the whole package to make it work. Anything less, like a Zoom, is going to sound and perform like a Zoom.

...this reminds me of our other conversation where you told me that a real timecode slate was the only way to go and that the iPad was not a viable option to slate the camera. Now we see iPad slates on numerous sets.

I never said it couldn't work -- only that I'm very dubious on how long an iPad will hold up to the daily use and abuse by normal camera crews under difficult shooting conditions. I can easily run a Denecke TS3 timecode slate for 12 hours on one jam and one set of cheap batteries, and it won't drift, plus I can fling it to a concrete floor from a 3-foot drop and it'll still work. (Sadly, I've seen that happen.) I can't say that for an iPad. Don't forget you still need to get a timecode generator for the iPad to make this work, which will bump the total price up to a grand.

Bear in mind I've said from day 1 this is strictly my opinion. You asked... you got an opinion. I'm positive my way will work. The product you describe doesn't exist. But Jon Tatooles is a good guy, very knowledgeable, very sharp. Go over to the Sound Devices User Forum and ask him there. I've used many, many of their products, and they're absolutely rock-solid. And their mike preamps are extremely good, among the best out there.

BTW, the Sonosax pictured above is a fantastic machine, with impeccable Swiss-built precision and world-class sound quality. But I think the last time I checked, it was $12,000. It's a little out of line for the price level we're talking about here.

For less than that price, you might look at the new Zaxcom Nomad, which at least is scalable in terms of audio channels and will do just about anything. It also starts at $3300, which is a little more affordable. It's not out yet (as of late June), but will be shipping soon. The Zaxcom recorders are first-rate and I recommend them highly; consider them the "Mercedes" to Sound Devices "BMW" and Sonosax's "Lexus." All great units.

 

[Dabling Harward]

Not 4 simultaneous XLR inputs, not 4 XLR outputs, not 4 channels of meters, not a 4-channel mixer, and not 4 level controls, no. Plus you again neglect the battery usage problem. Go out and buy four pots, 8 jacks, 4 meters, and some battery holders and tell me how big a box would be to hold this many parts. Sometimes, you need the whole package to make it work. Anything less, like a Zoom, is going to sound and perform like a Zoom.

But as you already know, the 744 only has 2 XLR inputs and the other two are TA3 line inputs. This small box is essentially a basic 744 without all the extra goodies. I guess you're describing the 788 which does have 4 XLR inputs. I'm not even trying to get this device to that level. You can however, adjust the input level of all 4 inputs on the MixPre D although the line input adjustment is a two button process. Not completely user friendly and quick but not too bad either for a box this size to have 4 inputs. Having 4 outputs is something that most users probably wouldn't need as long as this could record internally. The 2 outputs the box already has would just go to camera as a scratch track anyway with inputs 3 and 4 routed however you like between outputs 1 and 2.

I never said it couldn't work -- only that I'm very dubious on how long an iPad will hold up to the daily use and abuse by normal camera crews under difficult shooting conditions. I can easily run a Denecke TS3 timecode slate for 12 hours on one jam and one set of cheap batteries, and it won't drift, plus I can fling it to a concrete floor from a 3-foot drop and it'll still work. (Sadly, I've seen that happen.) I can't say that for an iPad. Don't forget you still need to get a timecode generator for the iPad to make this work, which will bump the total price up to a grand.

Just bustin' your chops. I like our conversations. You've been in this game a long time and I really appreciate your knowledge and straight forwardness. I totally agree with you that the Deneke slate is a workhorse and extremely durable.

BTW, the Sonosax pictured above is a fantastic machine, with impeccable Swiss-built precision and world-class sound quality. But I think the last time I checked, it was $12,000. It's a little out of line for the price level we're talking about here.

Yeah it's very expensive. I only posted that because you said in your earlier post that a 4 channel recorder with timecode had to be much bigger to accomodate all the parts. I had to call shenanigans on that one::coolgleamA:

For that price, you might look at the new Zaxcom Nomad, which at least is scalable in terms of audio channels and will do just about anything. It also starts at $3300, which is a little more affordable. It's not out yet (as of late June), but will be shipping soon. The Zaxcom recorders are first-rate and I recommend them highly; consider them the "Mercedes" to Sound Devices "BMW" and Sonosax's "Lexus." All great units.

No question about it. I'll get the Nomad 6 channel recorder for my larger productions, but this MixPre D is my goto box for all the running and gunning I do. Just wished it had a internal recorder like the 552.

 

[Richard Foster]

Not trying to hijack this thread here, but ask a question related to it. With a good mixer like being discussed here would a sound professional feel comfortable recording location sound for a feature directly into a RED or would he still go double system? And if double system do you then tether camera time code to the recorder? It seems simpler to me from the cinematographer/editor point of view to record directly in the camera if equally high quality can be achieved. Would greatly appreciate some feedback here or steering to some good information or another thread. Thanks in advance.

 

[Trailangel]

You basically just described the 744t, which has been out for years. I think the preamps are pretty much identical between the two products. Bear in mind there's a lot of potential options and settings that have to be done in a 4-track timecode device, and you have to have meters, menus, and buttons to get there. You need the extra room on the 744t to make this practical.

Marc, You're right. I did describe the 744 but in a much smaller and simpler form factor. After you see how easy it is to mount the MixPre D on a camera in any configuration, you'll be saying "744 what?" You need a degree in specialized mounting to mount a 744 conveniently on a camera. For run and gun and simplicity of use, this kills the 744. No menu structures to deal with, no carrying around a sony charger etc. It's just plug and play simple. If the Zoom and Tascam can record internally, (and they're tiny) Jon can make this record internally in his sleep. Just like he put a recorder in the 552, he could also do this in the MixPre D.

The 744 is great in a bag carried by a sound guy. the Mix Pre D is great for the single shooter who needs to keep things simple and keep it moving.

And when Jon does make this a recorder (hint hint) we'll all be saying why didn't he do this a long time ago.:smile5:

744 is not going to do this...

Hey Babling Dabling......MixPre is 2 channels only. And BTW, you don't have a fuzzy on your still photo camera. Good luck with your one-man-band Productions.

 

[Trailangel]

Not trying to hijack this thread here, but ask a question related to it. With a good mixer like being discussed here would a sound professional feel comfortable recording location sound for a feature directly into a RED or would he still go double system? And if double system do you then tether camera time code to the recorder? It seems simpler to me from the cinematographer/editor point of view to record directly in the camera if equally high quality can be achieved. Would greatly appreciate some feedback here or steering to some good information or another thread. Thanks in advance.

Ask camera operator if he wants four cables hanging off the camera while he is walking around shooting handheld , because you all think this is so stylish looking. Or the extra weight of four channels of wireless receivers (will plug into your camera battery).