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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Display for > Apple/REDCineX/Resolve/Adobe...oh my!!

Eric Santiago

Eric Santiago

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Yes the title is deceiving.
Ready to pull the trigger on a display that can handle the above.
Were not a full fledged post-house and don't have a budget of over 5k.

The ones were looking at are:

HP DreamColor
NEC SpectraView Reference 241/271
Eizo 232? (this one Im not finding a specific model in REDUser)

The set-up will be MacPro 12core > REDRocket > BOB > "insert display here"
The workstation has a Nvidia Quadro 4000 running two Apple Cinema 30's.
My extent (and knowledge) of coloring could live off the Cinemas for now.

The ref display will only be used in studio and most likely a well lit one :(
The hood might come into effect here.

Any help would be great :)

Thanks in advance!
 
Please add the Flanders 24" LM-2461W in this topic :)
 
TV Logic is another big contender.

I know quite a few LA post facilities (Technicolor, Ascent, Company 3, Post Group, Laser Pacific, etc.) that are using the Panasonic TH-50PF20 plasma, but some are using a Rec709 LUT box to tweak the color gamut slightly.

Two other major contenders are the new Sony OLEDs and the Dolby Labs PRM-4200, but these are significantly more money ($40,000+).

My problem with the HP Dreamcolor is that the display falls off quite a bit unless you're directly head-on, and this is impractical for more than one person watching the monitor at a time. It's fine for an artist working solo. The 50" plasma works great in a medium-sized suite and can be easily viewed by 6-8 people with no problem.
 
I would have to say that the 50" Panasonic VT20 Plasma is a very good option. The newer VT30 should also be very good, but I haven't seen it yet in person.
The price is well inside your 5K budget.
 
I did quite some searching here and it is fairly agreed that the best 'solo' monitor is the flander 24" straight sdi and full 10 bit precision.. The dreamcolor should be pretty close if calibrated well. The Matrox mx02 le shoulld be pretty useful once it has thunderbolt support.. 10 bit out of the hdmi - proper software color calibration and should help in h.264 renders..

If you have a small facility the Panasonic plasma seems to be the best preferred choice.. Color grading is many a time one of the last processes where people or investors gather to see the nearly finished product. Of course a 42" on your desk would be ridiculous.. The panny is home in a small facility a few feet away from your station..

The tv logic seems very interesting and boasts all the necessary requirements - professional connections, 10 bit 4:4:4 precision but they also claim that it holds up when viewed at an angle.. I never used one myself but if this is true it might be a good choice to be the only screen.. But it might be a bit to the limit of your budget..

I have used a calibrated Eizo for photographic retouching. The higher end 10bit panel are still pricey but the color was spot on. Wonderful panel..! Still to grade footage we need to calibrate to Rec709 which you might find easier to do with the above mentioned monitors..

Forgot to mention.. It useful to use a grading monitor with integrated vectorscopes and blue only channels.. You'll never go back once you start to use them.. They will guide you for correct grading even after you strain your eyes with many hours of grading.. Still the Blackmagic card should be able to fix this problem. You just need an empty slot on your mac pro.. The Flanders has these built in.. I'm not sure about the TVLogic.. The dreamcolor and all the rest dont have them.


Hope this was a tiny bit helpful
Kirk
 
Kirk.Attard said:
If you have a small facility the Panasonic plasma seems to be the best preferred choice.
Click to expand...
You did read where I said above that Technicolor, Ascent, Company 3, Post Group, and Laser Pacific are all using the Panasonic plasmas in LA? Each of these companies bills as much as $20 million a year in post, on major features and network series. I'm not sure if that qualifies as a "big facility" or not. The adjustment of the monitor is really the most critical issue.

Forgot to mention.. It useful to use a grading monitor with integrated vectorscopes and blue only channels.
Click to expand...
I would go with using a separate dedicated display for scopes. Ideally, the Tek scopes are great, but on a tighter budget, a separate computer and the Blackmagic Ultrascope can work OK -- though it's tough for experienced colorists to get used to the lag between an on-screen correction and the processing time needed for the Ultrascope to react.
 
Reading up on the Flanders LM-2460W and noticed the 3G SDI option for $2k.
Do I really need this with my MacPro > ROCKET > BOB set-up?
Wouldnt I have to buy another convertor of some type?
Id like to avoid it due to budget.
 
Eric Santiago said:
Reading up on the Flanders LM-2460W and noticed the 3G SDI option for $2k...
Click to expand...
Oops nevermind, this was replaced by a newer model that has the 3G built in.
 
Thanks!

Thanks!

Thanks everyone for your input. Were going the Flanders route first.
We will also look at the Pannies suggested.

Again thanks!
 
Just in case Im challenged with our decision (at work).
Are there any other brands that mirror (or better) the Flanders model?
Im thinking if there is the cost would be double or more.
 
Marc Wielage said:

I know quite a few LA post facilities (Technicolor, Ascent, Company 3, Post Group, Laser Pacific, etc.) that are using the Panasonic TH-50PF20 plasma, but some are using a Rec709 LUT box to tweak the color gamut slightly.
Click to expand...


That may be the case, but to my knowledge it is still not the case in any of the facilities you just mentioned (the LUT box part, that is..).


My problem with the HP Dreamcolor is that the display falls off quite a bit unless you're directly head-on, and this is impractical for more than one person watching the monitor at a time. It's fine for an artist working solo. The 50" plasma works great in a medium-sized suite and can be easily viewed by 6-8 people with no problem.
Click to expand...

The Dreamcolor might have some off axis falloff, but it's still better in that regard than almost any other LCD I can think of. And it's a HELL of a lot better than the JVC.......
 
M Most said:
That may be the case, but to my knowledge it is still not the case in any of the facilities you just mentioned (the LUT box part, that is..).

Hi Mike -- am I understanding you correctly here? Are you saying they use the Panny Plasmas without a Davio or similar LUT box? How are they calibrating the Plasma? For what deliverables are they using it?

Thanks,
Paul
Click to expand...
 
paul engstrom said:
M Most said:
That may be the case, but to my knowledge it is still not the case in any of the facilities you just mentioned (the LUT box part, that is..).

Hi Mike -- am I understanding you correctly here? Are you saying they use the Panny Plasmas without a Davio or similar LUT box? How are they calibrating the Plasma? For what deliverables are they using it?
Click to expand...

They are set up to display Rec709 as closely as possible using proper measurement tools, such as the Minolta or Photo Research photospectrometers, and the built in color controls on the monitor. Plasmas are very dominant in L.A. post facilities for all the reasons Marc mentioned. They're used primarily for television work, but they're also used for trimming video deliverables for feature DI's.
Click to expand...
 
That's what I thought you were saying. Thanks Mike.

P
 
Marc - you may not have heard that Dolby dropped the list price of the Professional Reference Monitor by almost $15,000 at NAB in April. It is now more affordably priced under $40,000 which is good news for post production facilities looking for a true Grade 1 reference monitor. The Dolby Professional Reference Monitor is the first monitor capable of displaying the full dynamic range, contrast ratio, and color gamut that today’s leading-edge digital cameras such as the Red Epic can deliver. It is the only display with native 12 bit performance on the screen, rendering true blacks, superb dark detail, and the most precise color accuracy possible. The monitor can be calibrated to perfectly match digital screening environments during the digital intermediate process. There are a couple Dolby monitors at Red Studios in Hollywood right now.
 
M Most said:
That may be the case, but to my knowledge it is still not the case in any of the facilities you just mentioned (the LUT box part, that is..).
Click to expand...
I think a few have gone back and forth, especially with the Davio Display Processor. There are even companies selling the Panasonic plasma and the Davio as a package, like VTP in LA.

BTW, what monitors is Deluxe using for TV/Rec709 mastering? I'd also add Point 360 and Modern Videofilm to the list of Panasonic plasma users (they slipped my mind).

The Dreamcolor might have some off axis falloff, but it's still better in that regard than almost any other LCD I can think of. And it's a HELL of a lot better than the JVC.......
Click to expand...
I agree with that. And I would also agree that the Dolby monitor is fantastic, judging by what I saw at LightIron and at NAB demos. But it's still got to be over $30,000, even with the price break.
 
I dont know if anyone is following the two upcoming monitors from Sony in the Trimaster series. The 17inch PVM1741 and the 25 inch PVM2541

They look very promising and decently priced.. With built in vectorscopes.

Not sure about oled technology... They claim that the blacks are super deep and use 10 bit technology (dont know if its true 10 bit or not though).

The smaller one should be fine on a desk but will lack the awe in a grading facility where there is more than one person watching.. Still more expensive than a dreamcolor but with the extra features and sdi + hdmi connectivity I think its a real one to look out for.. It should also have very good calibration with both software and hardware... The gammas can be calibrated to Rec 709 or other standards as needed. Pretty useful I think..

I rarely need to colorgrade in realtime in front of clients so I think this should be a real pro choice that will serve for many years. Its aluminum chassis looks pretty solid.

Please tell me what you guys think.. and thanks..
 
Me personally, I don't think it's possible to grade accurately on the same screen that has a scope on it. Too much of a distraction, at least from my perspective.

The OLED's actually look pretty good, but again, it's not the same thing as color-correcting on a 40" or 50" display, especially if you do get into a client or multi-person environment.
 
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