EPIC - ARRI, SIDE BY SIDE FACTS.

[Mark Toia]

Sent to me by a few people now...
You can't beat the factory specs from both companies in a side by side. There are no lies then.

I didn't know that the ARRI at it's very best RAW setting was only 2880 pixels @ 30 fps.
And in video mode (PRO RES mode) it's technically just a HD video camera instead of a RAW capture camera.
and almost everyone shoots it in PRO RES mode...
So really it's a little over half of what an EPIC is capable of in RAW Mode, a 1/4 on an EPIC if you shoot in PRORES mode, and cost twice as much. and people still buy it?...

To me it looks like Alexa's equal maybe the little Scarlet? or at best the EPIC S...
I think who ever buys the Scarlets (when they finally come out) should know that there little cameras are equal to ARRI's best.

By looking at these side by side Facts, EPIC completely kicks its arse, and some.
Plus with more options being turned on in EPIC every couple of weeks, the gap is going to get further and further..

Very interesting stuff. I wonder if people every read this stuff. I know I do when buying a new car.
(James Camera, Ridley Scott, Peter Jackson, Steve Spielberg, Steven Sodenberg... obviously do)

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm only sharing. :001_smile::001_smile:

 

[Justin Kirchhoff]

My new desktop background.

 

[Mark Toia]

hahahaha.... thats funny

 

[Matt Steinauer]

Yep.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Thanks Mark, this is a big reason why the marketing push from Arri has been focusing on minimizing the importance of specs ("we are not interested in the resolution race") and focus on "aesthetic" that is subjective and unprovable.

It's largely because their specs are dramatically inferior, as your chart so effectively illustrates.

What's even more impressive to me is that is Red has to fully earn every high profile customer, not just based on specs but on performance and image quality -- the same thing Arri purports to be superior in. In other words, you don't get Jim Cameron, Peter Jackson, Ridley Scott or others for any reason other than aesthetic quality and performance.

Whereas with the Alexa - although I know it does make nice images - I believe they also get some automatic adoption based on Arri's "tradition" and brand perception amongst DP's ....

 

[paulherrin]

hahaha...

 

[Rich Schaefer]

AWESOME comparison!

I will be bookmarking this fact sheet. Thanks for sharing.

Prost,
Rich

PS I wonder if this thread will explode. I am going to but some popcorn

 

[Rick Darge]

Isn't someone out there supposed to be doing a side by side comparison with Alexa and Epic? I wonder if that happened yet

 

[Justin Kirchhoff]

Looking forward to a real-world side by side comparison of Alexa and Epic. We all know that charts won't be enough, and of course the obvious outcome of resolution.

We need broad daylight shots, lots of colors, great color grading and even natural light. All of which should make either camera shine.

 

[Brook Willard]

Isn't someone out there supposed to be doing a side by side comparison with Alexa and Epic? I wonder if that happened yet

I think I've done about a dozen of them already... all of them different. Everybody should be free to form their own opinion from their own tests when the opportunity is there. Most people have a horse in the race [or at least a favorite], so many tests are skewed.

This diagram is fun but it is undeniably skewed to the RED side. It's hard to present a "fact sheet" with a giant header joking about how one camera trounces the other.

There's no doubt that I've picked a favorite between the two... but the Alexa is a damn good camera.

I say we all enjoy the humor and try to prevent this thread from becoming explosively dramatic.

 

[Rick Darge]

Someone shot this months ago, http://vimeo.com/13940259

 

[Justin Kirchhoff]

That was an ok test. They really needed a side by side video so people can pause and compare for themselves (even though it's web video). This test is at least more recent with RED MX. http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/201...inally-online/ EPIC I feel would out perform Alexa and 35mm in these tests by John Brawley.

 

[Mark Toia]

Unless your looking at a side by side on a 4k monitor or projector... It's hopeless posting comparison tests on Vimeo or You tube. Just a complete waste of time. Why bother.
The big boys do 4k side by side tests and thats why they are choosing EPIC over the Arri for large productions. brand names mean nothing to the logical choices.

Little Tv shows or ad's... does it really matter what camera you use.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

As a member of the ASC and as someone who is on the publishing committee of the ASC, which includes the magazine, and as someone who occasionally writes for the ASC, including the magazine, I assume you have proof that the ASC magazine has refused to publish any advertisements for Red because of pressure from Kodak, who for some reason don't have a problem with adds by Sony, Panasonic, etc. (let alone Fuji). Otherwise, I find that sort of accusation very offensive even in jest.

Besides, I don't get the logic that Kodak would have a problem with an advertisement pitting the Epic against the Alexa.

 

[Mark Toia]

I think I've done about a dozen of them already... all of them different. Everybody should be free to form their own opinion from their own tests when the opportunity is there. Most people have a horse in the race [or at least a favorite], so many tests are skewed.

This diagram is fun but it is undeniably skewed to the RED side. It's hard to present a "fact sheet" with a giant header joking about how one camera trounces the other.

There's no doubt that I've picked a favorite between the two... but the Alexa is a damn good camera.

I say we all enjoy the humor and try to prevent this thread from becoming explosively dramatic.

Hi Brook,

Not that I care as I have no shares in any of these companies or, but which part is skewed in you view.. The head line or the comparison facts. Do you think they might mean Arri is kicking RED's arse instead? Just playing with ya.

Hey mate, on another note. Your top & bottom plates for the EPIC.. I ordered a few weeks ago.. any hold up in production. Seems to be taking quite a while for something so simple. Should I start knocking some doors down.

cheers mate. Love your work.

 

[Mark Toia]

Mate.. I was only joking!
Jezzz. your a serious man.
Ill retract.

 

[Lee Saxon]

To me it looks like Alexa's equal maybe the little Scarlet?

Scarlet beats it some respects, shooting 3K@120fps rather than 30fps. However if they were the same price, I'd choose 3K@30fps S35 over 3K@120fps on 2/3" 100% of the time.

This diagram is fun but it is undeniably skewed to the RED side.

How so? All the listed items seem to me to be objective measurements (no "more pleasing highlight rendering" type stuff) that you can't really misrepresent.

Was some area in which the Alexa is superior left out?

I'm not being a smart-ass I really am curious (not that I could afford an Alexa even if I decided I did like it better.

 

[paulherrin]

just be careful with the touchy subjects mark, and everybody should be cool... except the people that aren't cool anyways

this thing might actually get looked at if the quote were removed from the top...

 

[Erich Ocean]

Was some area in which the Alexa is superior left out?

Direct-to-Edit, i.e. the Alexa's number one feature. It's still the one area Epic can't touch (though 3rd party solutions are coming soon that will close the gap a lot, and of course RED will have a module of their own some day).

Oh, and the Alexa is also available today to anyone with the $$$, with all options and full kit. The Epic-M is still unavailable to most (I've been on the waiting list for months now, for example. The Epic-M also regularly ships without all of the parts -- missing EVFs, REDMotes, etc.). This is not RED's fault (Japan crisis, etc.) but it's still a point of comparison today.

When Epic finally gets widely available with full firmware, it's definitely going to be the camera to beat. I'm certainly waiting for mine. If I can't wait any longer, I'd buy an F3/S-Log/Cinedeck over an Alexa at this point.

 

[Rich Schaefer]

I agree, edit the label at the top. It will make it legitimate. I am not an Alexa expert: is the info accurate?

If so, its a great fact sheet/comparison of specs.