WTB and discuss: OConner 1030, Miller Arrow 55 or similar - head comparison thoughts?

[Christian Munoz D]

Jeff,

Sorry to hear your bad experience with Miller 55. I am sure it is an isolated issue.

I personally use the Miller 55 Sprinter II, 2-stage, mid spreader sticks all the time for cine and EFP work. It is a great head. My only problem is using it with long lenses. If used with 500, 600, 800 and 1200 mm in standstill mode it have no good stability. The wind, ground vibration and hand movement produce an undesirable quivering. Pan and tilt work 95% of the time perfect with those lenses. Other than that the Miller 55 is great.
I am waiting to use it with my Epic-X and see the difference. Maybe is a weight problem?
I have no experience with O’Connor 1030HD or 1030HDS.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Yeah, seems as if Jeff G. got a lemon set all around. I would've demanded a replacement... Too bad. Lots of us are having great luck with the Miller 55.

@Christian, the Miller 920-HD legs are much more stable than the Sprinter II legs. But they are bulkier and heavier. For the large lenses, you really do need a more stable tripod to start with and often a larger head if you can get away with it. Some of the issues are due to weight, some due to just balance and volume or center of gravity. The Miller works great with a RED One and a large zoom like the Optimo 12X, but when you're shooting full tele 290mm, things can get a bit shaky at times and I can usually keep it more stable using a prime like the RED 300, which weighs quite a bit less. The Miller 55 works best when the load is at least 15lbs and no more than about 40lbs. If you start going over that 40lb mark, which is easy to do with the RED One and many bigger lenses, it can be noticeable. It also helps immensely to have the rig properly balanced. Seems basic enough, yet a lot of people struggle to accomplish this. And it can be hard at times if you're not familiar with a bunch of gear that you may have rented or just purchased. I see lots of BTS shots of RED configurations where I just think to myself, "there's no way that rig is balanced". RED guys, especially those without much experience on other large camera systems, like to build top-heavy and/or front-heavy setups for some reason. I cringe every time I see a RED One with an 8 to 12 pound lens mounted, the LCD and EVF mounted on-camera toward the front of the body and the battery mounted on top... Yet the rig sits on a tripod with the body planted firmly over the camera head... They make 24" dovetail plates and rods for a reason, people...

Not to pick on you, Christian, but that rig in your picture with the 150-600 zoom... Even with the cradle out the rear, I'd be very skeptical of that rig being perfectly balanced on that head.

Don't be afraid to throw some dirt (sand bags) to weight down that tripod -- even with a perfectly balanced rig. It can help make it more stable and dampen external vibrations.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Jeff G,

In all my years of using Miller tripods I've never heard of, much less experienced a situation like you describe. As Jeff Kilgroe mentioned, you just somehow got a lemon, which could happen with any manufacturer. In 30+ years of using tripods made by O'Connor, Sachtler, Vinten, and Miller I've had very few QC problems with any of those manufacturers.

 

[Christian Munoz D]

@Christian, the Miller 920-HD legs are much more stable than the Sprinter II legs. But they are bulkier and heavier. For the large lenses, you really do need a more stable tripod to start with and often a larger head if you can get away with it.

Thank you Jeff, I will check them out. For the type of 75% of my wildlife work a heavier configuration is not optimal. So, with Epic maybe will be a good improvement in performance of the Sprinter II legs and the Miller 55 head with long lenses. My second choice of camera support is the O’Connor 2075 wish perform faultless with any long lens, but forget about carrying it to a 5000 feet mountain!

Not to pick on you, Christian, but that rig in your picture with the 150-600 zoom... Even with the cradle out the rear, I'd be very skeptical of that rig being perfectly balanced on that head.
Don't be afraid to throw some dirt (sand bags) to weight down that tripod -- even with a perfectly balanced rig. It can help make it more stable and dampen external vibrations.

Well, sand bags are not an option in most of my wildlife work, I always use them in my narrative cinema work. After 3+ years of try and mistake after mistake, using the Red-Miller 55 configuration, I have learned a few tricks to get the best performance of the rig… I still not very happy though…

Check for yourself, This is a clip from the "Wild View" series, Shot on Red One 120fps 2K - Miller Arrow 55 and Century-Canon 150-600 Zoom. Just to show how a properly balanced heavy rig works on the Miller Arrow 55 Sprinter II, 2-stage CF. This was shot the day of the pic in the above post:

 

[Lee Dashiell]

I have the 55 as well and like it as well. It's very had to beat for the money and it can handle a few more pounds than the 1030. If I were thinking O'connor I think I would push to the 2065. The problem is that it's close to double what the Miller package costs.

 

[Jon Nash]

I can vouch for the Arrow 55. So light yet sturdy and more than adequate for field work on the Epic. I guess you (Aaron) and I will be configuring our X's for similar type work. Kindda ENG style but wanting the ability to go studio too. Im seeking the perfect hybrid set up if it exists. Iv'e not settled on a configuration yet.

 

[James Press]

We have 2 Reds and both use Cooke 25-250mm zooms on Miller Arrow 55s, with Sprinter 2 sticks, following primarily Gibby's recommendation. Have had this set up since the beginning (mid 2008) without problems. We even use the dual battery battery mount so it's pretty loaded. I think this is probably about as heavy as you could sensibly go, and we have to be very careful balancing it correctly or it invariably sinks/floats. We use an O'Conner regularly also for a third camera but that's using Zeiss ZF primes so it's very light, so can't really compare, although it's obviously a very nice head also.

 

[Jeff Garton]

Clearly my experience seems to be atypical. Still, given my unfortunately extensive experience with their customer service, it will be unlikely that I will purchase anything from them again. By the way, if you read the manual it says to never pan or tilt the head and change the drag at the same time. I never did. (Yes, I actually read the manual for the head prior to use. I'm a geek) This was reiterated by their customer service rep when I sent it back the second time with similar problems (the drag setting knobs would jam), implying that I may have damaged the unit. Which was insulting. After my third time sending the head back, they said if it happened again to pan or tilt and rock the drag knob back and forth at the same time. The exact opposite of the manual and their previous advice. Go figure. I did request that both the head and stix be replaced with new units after the initial problems. They would not, stating that the warranty covered repair/replacement at their discretion. I didn't force the issue as ultimately I had too many other things going on and was mostly using my 2575. The 55 was for my Panasonic 3700 package as I was almost exclusively shooting RED in studio mode with big zooms. It does seem I got a lemon and their customer service was not very helpful in resolving the issue. BTW, it just came back for the third time. I'll let you know how it goes. As I said, I like the the performance of the head. With Epic coming it could be just the thing. But my confidence in it and Miller as a company is not high at this point. I can only speak from my experience.

 

[Justin R Goff]

Anything for sale? - I'll be purchasing in the next day or two.


Looking to purchase a used 100mm head for run and gun work that will hold my MX during lighter configurations. I will transfer this setup to my X when the time comes. Working off Manfrotto 536 carbon fiber sticks during field work.

Thoughts on these configurations? What about Vinten? PM or email aa (at) aaronschnobrich (dot) com with heads for sale.

Thanks!

You said in the next day or two so this may be a little late but you can get this 10% off brand new at innocinema.com.

OConnor Ultimate 1030HDS Fluid Head Package Was..$7,030.00, limited time offer $6,327.00

 

[Aaron Schnobrich]

Justin

Thank you for the tip - I purchased the head several weeks ago. I hope someone else here can take advantage of the offer!

Best

 

[Justin R Goff]

Justin

Thank you for the tip - I purchased the head several weeks ago. I hope someone else here can take advantage of the offer!

Best

No problem Aaron!

I hope you are enjoying it! OConnor makes great stuff.

 

[Nils J. Nesse]

Just bought a Cartoni Gamma head on ebay... Hoping it'll do the job as a light(er) weight head with the Epic.

 

[rod bradley]

I own and use both Miller and Oconnor heads. Both are great. Both robust. I agree that Miller is underrated in this country. On the other hand, it's pretty hard to overrate an Oconnor.