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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Redcode File Sizes at Different Data Rates

Julio Quintana

Julio Quintana

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Hey guys. I know RED has enough to think about right now, so maybe some "tattoo" guys can chime in. I would like to make a chart that lists how many GB/minute all the RED cameras will record at all the different compression rates and resolutions. This is a question that comes up on every RED shoot I'm on, and I always end up giving rough estimates, but it would be great to just send a PDF to whoever needs to know. This information is even more pertinent now that the Epic is shooting enormous rates, and the recording mediums have actually gotten smaller (640GB RED Drives vs. 256GB SSD). Right now on the RED, the default decision from DP's is to shoot the highest resolution with the least compression possible. That might change with Epic if they look at a chart and realize they are recording 12GB/minute or whatever.

Anyways, this is the info I need to fill in the chart:

Camera (RED/Epic/Scarlet)___Resolution___Compression___Frame Rate___HDR Setting = GB/minute

My RED-1 is out right now but I'll fill in those when it comes back. If anyone from RED or the tattoo program can contribute the rest, it would be extremely helpful for everyone who's trying to budget for SSD drives. And of course if RED already has all of this information and would just like to make the chart themselves, it would save us all a lot of work and speculation.

Thanks,

Julio
 
It should be very easy to calculate. You know the resolutions the cameras will shoot which means that you can calculate the size of one frame. You know the compression that will be available [5:1, 8:1, etc.], so you can calculate how large each compressed frame will be. From that you can just multiply by your desired frame rate and you're in business.

HDR mode is the variable here, but at worst it's probably 2x the data.
 
OK, so if that's the case, riddle me this batman. A Mysterium camera and MX camera shoot the same scene, same framerate (23.97), same compression (RC 36), same ISO rating (320) but the MX camera's file sizes are larger. Why? Because there is more information from the MX sensor, thus making the files larger, right?

Since Jim said the Epic at 5K was 60% more data than at 4K, and throwing HDRx into the mix, that would mean a 120% potential increase in data rates, correct?

To quote Roy Schieder, "You're going to need a bigger boat."
 
Brook, you know more about this than anyone. I'm not sure how to calculate the file size of one frame just by knowing the resolution and the compression. Could you illustrate for us with some examples?

Mark, I didn't know that file sizes from M-X were larger. Has anyone else seen this?
 
Mark Phelan said:
OK, so if that's the case, riddle me this batman. A Mysterium camera and MX camera shoot the same scene, same framerate (23.97), same compression (RC 36), same ISO rating (320) but the MX camera's file sizes are larger. Why? Because there is more information from the MX sensor, thus making the files larger, right?
Click to expand...
4K for both ? Maybe you're shooting 4.5K with the MX ?
 
Mark is 100% correct.

All things being equal, an MX RED data rate is higher. This is due to the fact that REDCODE is a variable codec, and it seems that the RED MX will stay closer to the maximum bitrate over the original M.

This has been confirmed by RED to me over the phone.

Matt Riggieri
Digital Cave
Local 600 DIT
 
Matthew Riggieri said:
Mark is 100% correct.

All things being equal, an MX RED data rate is higher. This is due to the fact that REDCODE is a variable codec, and it seems that the RED MX will stay closer to the maximum bitrate over the original M.

This has been confirmed by RED to me over the phone.

Matt Riggieri
Digital Cave
Local 600 DIT
Click to expand...
Good to know.

Thanks Matthew.
 
Don't know if anyone is still interested, but we shot some quick tests with the Epic.

(from my blog post ( http://lakeviewproductions.blogspot.com/ ):

We used a focus chart, panning back and forth for one minute (not the best way to push the variable bit rate, but at least it was somewhat repeatable).

18:1 = 1.48 GB/Minute
15:1 = 1.77 GB/Minute
10:1 = 2.65 GB/Minute
8:1 = 3.34 GB/Minute (Default setting)
5:1 = 5.26 GB/Minute
3:1 = 8.70 GB/Minute

As a frame of reference, a 4k file from the RED One (non-MX) at 16:9, 23.98 timeline, 24 fps, is as follows:

Redcode 28 = 1.88 GB/min*
Redcode 36 = 1.57 GB/min*

(* My RED Ones were out today, so I calculated this on iSee4K)

As you can see, the default setting of the EPIC (8:1) is about twice that of the RED One at 4K. We might try running actual tests using the MX cameras at 4.5K, with the additional Redcode 42 setting available. Presumably HDR would at most double again the file sizes, since it shoots a second frame under for the highlights.

So, if file size is a concern for you, shooting the EPIC at around 12:1 or 15:1 should give you what you're used to with the RED One at 4k. If you've shot with the MX, I would guess that 10:1 or so will give you what you're used to. The default of 8:1 is probably not a bad compromise as a default setting. Hopefully we can update this comparison shoot at a later date.
 
Thanks for that, Chris. I get asked this all the time by post clients, and it's good to have a number I can pull out that will give them some idea as to data sizes for potential workflow issues.
 
Chris Gearhart said:
As a frame of reference, a 4k file from the RED One (non-MX) at 16:9, 23.98 timeline, 24 fps, is as follows:

Redcode 28 = 1.88 GB/min*
Redcode 36 = 1.57 GB/min*
Click to expand...

Sorry Chris but this is figures are switched. Redcode 28 is more compressed (smaller files) than 36 or 42.
 
I just got a note from Dan Baum at Red with the following information...

REDcode 42 was the equivalent to 7.5:1 compression ratio.
REDcode 36 was 9:1
REDcode 28 was 10:1

Referring to the comparison between Redcode Quality on the Red One MX verses the Epic
 
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