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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is there a decent inbuilt audio solution for the 2/3 Scarlet?

Henrique Silva said:
Yes i know, but they talk about a 3.5mm jack :
"in Signal Description Direction
A (TIP) IN + Mic Input (+48V Phantom Power) In
B (RING) IN - Mic Input (+48V Phantom Power) In
C (SLEEVE) GND Camera ground --"

edit:Isn't this stereo?
They show a TRS in Manual.
Click to expand...

Depends on how it's wired. Doesn't have to be stereo. In Epic and Scarlet there are two jacks on the front of the camera. Can't imagine that they each be stereo. :-)
 
Henrique Silva said:
Yes i know, but they talk about a 3.5mm jack :
"in Signal Description Direction
A (TIP) IN + Mic Input (+48V Phantom Power) In
B (RING) IN - Mic Input (+48V Phantom Power) In
C (SLEEVE) GND Camera ground --"

edit:Isn't this stereo?
They show a TRS in Manual.
Click to expand...

Don't confuse the connector with the type of signal it is wired for.

TRS unbalanced stereo is tip: left +, ring: right +, sleeve: common ground for both. It can be anything from mic level to headphone amplified level.

The TRS described in the Epic manual is balance mono wired 2-conductors and shield just like an XLR.
 
David Rasberry said:
Don't confuse the connector with the type of signal it is wired for.

TRS unbalanced stereo is tip: left +, ring: right +, sleeve: common ground for both. It can be anything from mic level to headphone amplified level.

The TRS described in the Epic manual is balance mono wired 2-conductors and shield just like an XLR.
Click to expand...

only thing I worry a bit is, wether there could be some shortening of the phantom at putting in or out the TRS into or out of the socket ....
 
Gerald Menclik said:
only thing I worry a bit is, wether there could be some shortening of the phantom at putting in or out the TRS into or out of the socket ....
Click to expand...

Not a problem. Lots of wireless body packs already use the same setup with either 2.5mm or 3.5mm TRS jacks.
 
David Rasberry said:
The mini-jacks are fully balanced mono inputs just like an XLR.
Click to expand...

Not to be completely whiney, but I've had a lot of bad experiences with mini-jacks over the years. I even had one come apart while I was covering a Paul McCartney press launch at the Lyceum in New York once and I ran down the street to Sadowsky Guitars (which was still in Manhattan back then) and Roger Sadowsky (saint that he is) soldered it back together for me on the fly and didn't charge me a penny. I used to try to carry around a second little portable consumer-level camera that I could go all verite with when I wanted and those jacks were always the fail point. If something failed it was almost always the jack. It's a pity they couldn't have managed a Mini-XLR or something along those lines.

On the other hand, how often are you going to use the sound being recorded by the camera, anyway? It's not an ENG rig.
 
Robert Jackson said:
Not to be completely whiney, but I've had a lot of bad experiences with mini-jacks over the years. I even had one come apart while I was covering a Paul McCartney press launch at the Lyceum in New York once and I ran down the street to Sadowsky Guitars (which was still in Manhattan back then) and Roger Sadowsky (saint that he is) soldered it back together for me on the fly and didn't charge me a penny. I used to try to carry around a second little portable consumer-level camera that I could go all verite with when I wanted and those jacks were always the fail point. If something failed it was almost always the jack. It's a pity they couldn't have managed a Mini-XLR or something along those lines.

On the other hand, how often are you going to use the sound being recorded by the camera, anyway? It's not an ENG rig.
Click to expand...

In my experience, almost any jack can fail with enough abuse. Sometimes just the proper stress relief on the cables can go a long way toward keeping things in order. In any case, remember that for anyone who has substantial needs for onboard recording, the regular and pro I/O modules will offer offer mini-XLR and XLR inputs, respectively.
 
Robert Jackson said:
Not to be completely whiney, but I've had a lot of bad experiences with mini-jacks over the years. I even had one come apart while I was covering a Paul McCartney press launch at the Lyceum in New York once and I ran down the street to Sadowsky Guitars (which was still in Manhattan back then) and Roger Sadowsky (saint that he is) soldered it back together for me on the fly and didn't charge me a penny. I used to try to carry around a second little portable consumer-level camera that I could go all verite with when I wanted and those jacks were always the fail point. If something failed it was almost always the jack. It's a pity they couldn't have managed a Mini-XLR or something along those lines.

On the other hand, how often are you going to use the sound being recorded by the camera, anyway? It's not an ENG rig.
Click to expand...

I am not a big fan of mini jacks either, but there are 25 cent Taiwan specials all the way to $15+ mil spec gold plated ones. Good ones don't break easily. I have had no problems with the ones on my GL2 in 5+ years, and I don't consider it to be a particularly robust camera. Red's will probably be premium grade in any case.
 
Robert Jackson said:
Not to be completely whiney, but I've had a lot of bad experiences with mini-jacks over the years. I even had one come apart while I was covering a Paul McCartney press launch at the Lyceum in New York once and I ran down the street to Sadowsky Guitars (which was still in Manhattan back then) and Roger Sadowsky (saint that he is) soldered it back together for me on the fly and didn't charge me a penny. I used to try to carry around a second little portable consumer-level camera that I could go all verite with when I wanted and those jacks were always the fail point. If something failed it was almost always the jack. It's a pity they couldn't have managed a Mini-XLR or something along those lines.

On the other hand, how often are you going to use the sound being recorded by the camera, anyway? It's not an ENG rig.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if you're totally relying on the audio from the camera, it's best to get either the I/O module (mini-XLR) or the Pro I/O module (full size XLR) for the audio inputs. The camera ones are more for recording a scratch track.

I'm sure a quality plug will be fine if you're in a pinch though. I plan to buy some good quality TRS and XLR connectors and make myself some adaptors.
 
Stephen Gentle said:
Yeah, if you're totally relying on the audio from the camera, it's best to get either the I/O module (mini-XLR) or the Pro I/O module (full size XLR) for the audio inputs. The camera ones are more for recording a scratch track.

I'm sure a quality plug will be fine if you're in a pinch though. I plan to buy some good quality TRS and XLR connectors and make myself some adaptors.
Click to expand...

To me it comes down to the quality of the preamp behind the connector. 24 bit 48kHz AD's and balanced inputs suggest the the preamps should be decent quality. XLR's or not, the biggest complaint I have had with on camera audio over the years is relatively noisy preamps and very little headroom before clipping. Sony was notorious for this for years even on their high end cameras. I don't know if they have improved significantly in the last decade though I expect they have. Red I think learned its lessons when it upgraded the audio on the R1, so "pro" connectors or not I bet the preamps in the new brains are on par with the quality of the rest of the camera.
 
I don't like the phantom power on min or any TRS jack. Seems to me a mini xlr would be better design, in a camera that is about better design. Minimizing the number of things hanging off the camera just makes more sense to me and an adapter to go from TRS to XLR...why not just start with quality mini xlr.
 
BrianMurphy said:
I don't like the phantom power on min or any TRS jack. Seems to me a mini xlr would be better design, in a camera that is about better design. Minimizing the number of things hanging off the camera just makes more sense to me and an adapter to go from TRS to XLR...why not just start with quality mini xlr.
Click to expand...

Size? I suspect things inside of Epic and Scarlet are pretty tightly packed. The depth of a larger jack in the body just might not have worked. :huh:
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Size? I suspect things inside of Epic and Scarlet are pretty tightly packed. The depth of a larger jack in the body just might not have worked. :huh:
Click to expand...

Well, and they do have the I/O modules for people who actually plan to use their cameras. :yesnod:

Now if they'd come out with a module that can hold/power a couple of wireless receivers it will be time to start getting really excited.
 
Robert Jackson said:
Well, and they do have the I/O modules for people who actually plan to use their cameras. :yesnod:

Now if they'd come out with a module that can hold/power a couple of wireless receivers it will be time to start getting really excited.
Click to expand...
I will indeed use "their" camera when it comes out like I use all the other cameras I own and that an I/O module is as I said just another thing hanging off the camera. Not everyone finds the modular system works for them and I for one need a camera that is as close to self contained as possible.
 
Not sure why this is such an issue for folks. The camera isn't even out yet but already there are multiple solutions to handle a wide variety of needs. Elsewhere on this forum there is information about a small $200 adaptor from Wooden Camera that will give you XLR inputs. The upcoming I/O module from RED will provide 2 mini-XLR inputs (and more) at a reasonable form factor, and the Pro I/O module will give 4 XLR inputs or even digital inputs to the camera. Seems to me like the bases have been pretty well covered. What's to complain about? :shocked:
 
The I/O modules all lock securely to the brain with a V-lock system and interface through mating connectors so they essentially become an integral part of the body. They are not "hanging off" of anything and do not require external cables to connect them to the brain.
 
David Rasberry said:
The I/O modules all lock securely to the brain with a V-lock system and interface through mating connectors so they essentially become an integral part of the body. They are not "hanging off" of anything and do not require external cables to connect them to the brain.
Click to expand...

Yeah, exactly. It probably makes the whole thing an inch or so deeper, but it adds functionality that the camera otherwise wouldn't have. And that includes more monitoring functionality.

And some people will be just fine with 1/8" mini-jacks. I just don't care for them. I mean, they're fine for iPod headphones, but I don't wanna plug mics into them.

Still, the hippest (for people using Scarlet as a doc machine) would be a module that will hold/power slot-in wireless microphone receivers. A pair of Scarlets set up that way would rock the house. A real doc-in-a-briefcase solution.
 
Justin O'Neill said:
The Scarlet brains have two independent microphone level channels, balanced input circuits, 48V Phantom Power, digitized at 24-bit 48KHz on the front. Scarlet can also take the Pro I/O module which will have full sized XLR inputs. Nobody has had a chance to test the audio quality on Epic or Scarlet yet but we all expect it to be very good.
Click to expand...

Stuart English said:
Add to that - all analog inputs include a soft clip Limiter, and the PRO I/O includes 4 channel AES / EBU digital audio input.

The latter is intended for use with high performance external audio mixers such as Sound Devices 552.
Click to expand...

I notice that Justin wrote 'mic' level input instead of 'mic/line switchable input' followed by Stuart who did not try to correct him on this.
So does this mean there is no line level audio input without the pro I/O module?
I am a bit surprised if it is.

I would have expected a lot of scarlet shooters to want to be rolling with a mixpre, 302 or 702 and feeding line level in without added expense of the pro I/O.

Anyone?
 
From the draft Epic Manual (p. 13):

"LINE LEVEL ANALOG INPUTS
The recording level of Line inputs are affected only by the signal provided by the field production sound
mixer or other external line level source. The sound mixer operator should choose a mixer output level
that aligns a reference tone signal to the 0dBu (0.775 volts RMS / -20dBFS) reference mark drawn
through the camera’s Peak Meter, or if using +4dB as reference level, a mixer output level that aligns a
reference tone signal to the +4dBu (1.23 Volts RMS / -16dBFS) reference mark.
The 0dBu setting provides up to 24dB of input signal headroom above reference level before clipping
(20dB for +4dBu reference level) and the maximum signal to noise ratio for the 24-bit digital recording."

So yeah, it will take line level inputs through the mini-TRS jacks. Lot of other good info applicable to Scarlet in the manual.
 
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