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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Get Real...

B

Billy Gedney

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I had a conversation with a salesmen for another camera company while at NAB and I got a reaction I'm starting to wonder if that's become the norm.

He just looked at me when I said I was considering using a scarlet for Live Studio work and just said "Are you kidding? Get Real..." then proceeded to tell me what his camera could do. Looked at me like I was an idiot, disregarded what I said, and moved on. Listen, I understand that people have their differences of opinion (especially when you're paid to support one product over another). What seemed to catch me by surprise was the fact that he didn't spend a breath trying to compare the two products. He didn't say 'oh, you're going to have a problem because the P32 space modulator isn't configured right,' or 'our flux capacitor is newer, better, brighter, cheeper, and something else that is really important.' I understand they're in two different categories, but the way I see it, from a feature base, they're not that far off- you throw the right lens on the front of a scarlet, the price point, features, lack of need for the right accessories (CCU) all really start to paint an interesting picture.

Sure, lets wait to see if how everything comes together once the product is shipping, but I felt like I'd opened the door to politics and religion when I said that- it was more about ideology and dogma than anything.

Is this the new norm or did I just find a special guy at NAB? And btw, it wasn't #1 when you go looking for a pro studio camera. If you can guess the company, I'll tell you, but I just don't want to come out and openly bash them- that's not the point of what I'm saying...
 
If he said "Are you kidding? Get Real..." it is totally rude...everything else is just like a sales person from any company, not only from a camera company.
 
When there is no product shipping idealogy and dogma is all that's left - it's funny you mention religion because it really becomes an issue of faith at times.
I noticed similar reactions from others...not all... but some at NAB.

They'll all be eating their words at some point soon, I'm sure.
 
NAB Personnel

NAB Personnel

There are a lot of very sharp folks staffing booths at NAB, experienced and technically savvy professionals. That said, there are also plenty of quickly oriented ("trained" would be too generous) people filling out the staff rosters at NAB booths. I don't doubt that salespeople in our business, like any other, prefer to tout their goods over the offerings of others as SOP. Like any camera choice the RedOne, Epic and Scarlet will fit more neatly into some projects than others. People like Gibby, myself and many others find it relatively simple to configure a RedOne package for virtually any shooting situation but not everyone operates that way. That versatility on the part of the operator speaks to the broad skill sets that enable the user to leverage their investment in the Red system.

I contend that no matter how "point and shoot" a particular camera system might be, it is the discipline, vision and focus of the cameraman that counts. I would rather have Roger Deakins shooting my Canon HV20 than a noob shooting an Epic. Red makes fabulous tools and in the right hands they can take that talent to an even higher level due to the level of performance the system is capable of, but it all starts with the skill set. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong - just ask my wife ;-)

Cheers - #19
 
That is a good point. He seemed knowledgable- beyond buzz words. I can say that I am 26, and there wasn't a chance he was a just "trained" as you cited. Additionally- he has a few years on me (being nice) so he could have been playing the "you kids dont know anything" card... Not sure.

And I agree with you as far as operator skill. It isn't as applicable in the particular I'm considering a Scarlet for, but that's neither here nor there (church IMAG/Web). I'm just saying for the price point, I'll take a scarlet when it hits the market.

I've also come to the point where I trust the people who are willing to be wrong over those who insist they aren't.
 
Well, he might be right (not the idiot part!), if you're talking about live multicamera studio. Studio cameras have a load of features designed for that use, which are simply missing in the Scarlet, and would take expensive and cumbersome workarounds to replicate.
 
He was from GoPro ... right?

:laugh:
 
Lol... Not quiet... I'm surprised Go Pro hasn't made a mount to put 4 cameras up in a grid and say they have a 4k camera...

He was from JVC trying to sell me a 750. No Genlock, no Multi-core solution (they may have one, but he wasn't pushing it) no comm , no tally, no return video. I'm like - so- where is the advantage here? That I have to pay more? I'm still dealing with a cable bundle, lower resolution, no touch screen latching focus...
 
For those of us who hang out here on Reduser and soak up every bit of knowledge about the various flavors of RED, it is sometimes surprising how little information the "average" film industry person has about RED. I think you may have experienced this; he just doesn't know enough about Scarlet to discuss it. Hence, the tendency to dismiss it (and you) and hope he can slide by. I come across this every week with people who I like and respect; people I work on projects with but who don't follow the developments in the RED world. They sometimes have some really crazy perceptions and beliefs.

So far, the JVC guy selling the 700 or the 750 hasn't had to worry about RED. After all, people looking to spend $8K for a camera are probably not going to consider a RED ONE or, more recently, an Epic-M. So, he can afford, for now, the luxury of ignorance. What's unfortunate for him is that he may have a lot of scrambling to do to save his job when Scarlet is beating him up in the marketplace and he doesn't know why.
 
I have to agree with you- I think RED could do a better job of distributing actual hard, marketable information. I think Jim has himself admitted that. As far as marketing is concerned, almost even to a PR level, there has been this attitude with RED that "the proof is in the pudding" but hey- even restaurants put a menu out (if you catch my vague cross reference). [ BTW- I'm a business major with a minor in marketing in Corona if you guys decide you're looking to hire... Just sayin'. It's a tough one out there... I'm willing to make the drive].
 
Ha- well if he steered you into choosing anything from JVC over a Scarlet he's an amazing saleperson indeed. I can think of some cameras I'd take while waiting for Scarlet to make it to market. None of them would be from JVC however...

Noah
 
this sales persons comments remind me of many many conversations i had at NAB 2006, as i boasted to industry insiders and tech big wigs about the fact that i just put 1k down on $17,500 4k camera. every single one told me i am nuts and i just wasted 1k. now i wont go into the fact that most of them probably turned around and in the 4 days of NAB spent a minimum of 1k on food, alcohol, gambling and lap dances. so it wasnt the 1k they were really telling me i blew, it was really them questioning my logic for wanting to bet on the most untested, unproven and unknown horse with absolutely no track record. my secret at the time was knowing a little inside information about jim, in that he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars 10 years earlier on a DL Flame system and an entire state of the art movie theatre complete with extremely expensive at the time video projection, just so he could watch a compilation reel of his sponsored athletes performing that day from all of the news feeds and sports broadcasts from around the world. and that his sunglass technology for perfect optics was patented, but he didn't enforce it because others stealing it meant everyone could maintain their good eye sight when wearing sunglasses. these two acts made me confident that he would be successful and that i would be ahead of the curve...

so just like you, i feel sorry for everyone else that just doesnt get how hard jim is willing to work and how hard he is pushing his team to get it right. stay focused everyone, the best is yet to come!
 
Scarlet will be a real Swiss Army knife of a camera in many respects. But fully configured for live multi-camera production I don't think it will be much if any cheaper than other entry level 2/3" HD cameras. Based on previously posted prices for various modules, I estimated a Scarlet cinema package equipped to match the features of a Sony PMW-350, including the same B4 lens package, would run about the same price as the Sony. The fixed may have some cost savings by comparison.
 
dino g said:
this sales persons comments remind me of many many conversations i had at NAB 2006, as i boasted to industry insiders and tech big wigs about the fact that i just put 1k down on $17,500 4k camera. every single one told me i am nuts and i just wasted 1k. now i wont go into the fact that most of them probably turned around and in the 4 days of NAB spent a minimum of 1k on food, alcohol, gambling and lap dances. so it wasnt the 1k they were really telling me i blew, it was really them questioning my logic for wanting to bet on the most untested, unproven and unknown horse with absolutely no track record. my secret at the time was knowing a little inside information about jim, in that he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars 10 years earlier on a DL Flame system and an entire state of the art movie theatre complete with extremely expensive at the time video projection, just so he could watch a compilation reel of his sponsored athletes performing that day from all of the news feeds and sports broadcasts from around the world. and that his sunglass technology for perfect optics was patented, but he didn't enforce it because others stealing it meant everyone could maintain their good eye sight when wearing sunglasses. these two acts made me confident that he would be successful and that i would be ahead of the curve...

so just like you, i feel sorry for everyone else that just doesnt get how hard jim is willing to work and how hard he is pushing his team to get it right. stay focused everyone, the best is yet to come!
Click to expand...

Awesome post Dino. Definitely some stuff I didn't know ... things that say a lot about Jim.

Anthony
 
Liam Hall said:
Why would you want to use Scarlet for live studio work?
Click to expand...

Because for the cost of say- a JVC 750, I can build a comparable studio setup (with Genlock!) that I can break out of the Studio and take and shoot field pieces. Ohh- and it has HDR and it's 3k. (plus all those other great features). I dont need a ccu. I think that there is alot of ability in the camera that just isn't known. I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Copperhead or another third party make a multicore or multiplex solution for the camera. And because when I've asked and suggested it to the RED guys, they seem to indicate it could be done (tally over Ethernet and whoelse knows whatelse)...

And it wont be a JVC camera.

Just to start with.
 
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