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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

nofilmschool.com EPIC Article

Haven't read the links. I'm guessing that it's just somebody who's a nobody that is trying to attract attention to themselves. The Epic Ms are apparently working so flawlessly that it just seems a waste of time setting a naysayer straight. Too many more important things to do with time now that Epic X release is near.
 
The Epic article seems to come from Fresh DV, and it doesn't really bash Red as much as it does Ketch & Co.. Just the same it's only an empty headline. Someone over at Fresh DV is saying "Made you look!" and "Thanks for the link."
 
That second article is just plain dumb. It basically assumes the only thing that affects light sensitivity is pixel area. As far as this guy can tell, nothing about the underlying sensor technology matters, just how big the pixels are.
 
well, read through the article.... in my opinion i wouldn't say he's trashing Epic... skeptical maybe... while the article picks at what he thinks are problems in Epic, i think it's well put in the article.... unlike an article while back from... dvuser? dont remember, where the guy flames Red and used many false statements

and i have to agree with "You don’t hit the power switch and get a pretty image" from the article. Many out there including many comments i've seen on this forum dont know what their looking at in an ungraded image often posted here. They dont look great off hand, but those who know it shows just how much information is in the image to grade with.

as far as the second article goes... he does clearly state "Of course, this is all just math. There’s more to “light gathering ability” than the size of the pixels, but it is a primary consideration, and in my mind this is nothing to sneeze at. "
the article isnt written in harsh tone or anything, so i say fair enough:-P
 
Consider the source of the article...

And who cares? People will and are going to dislike/bash/blah blah blah...

"My hammer is better than your hammer cause it has no scratches, rust and has never been used."

"My knowledge of the hammer, an how I use it earns me living."
 
I don't see trashing as much as theorizing.

Trust me, if we were sitting in a theater with F3 footage and some of the footage that we've shot here on Spider-Man... you'd be speechless. Judging a camera's abilities on Vimeo is exactly what makes DSLRs look so good.

Don't start a forum war... everybody is entitled to their opinions. Just wait for a proper test, you'll be stunned.
 
Hmm. "Trashing" is probably a bit strong. They admit it's all really idle speculation without hard evidence or meaningful tests. Not really worth sweating over.
 
As posted on their site:

He he, I don't get affected form what other say, I am playing with EPIC M they are not ;)

All title say clearly Epic Test footage, we were testing under different conditions for the camera not for the footage, when I am ready to shoot
something then I will and then that will no longer have the Test Footage title ;)

Till then any one can say what they wish, they have no clue what we were testing for.

However, our first real shoot coming shortly, then you can pick it apart, and talk about what EPIC can and can not do,
even so it will not surely be a Half a Billion Dollar shoot like the HOBBITS, there you could really see what EPIC can do ;)
 
I think it's cool that red pulls footage from the community... but...

The first thing from the 5D was Reverie...
http://vimeo.com/7151244

The first thing on Alexa was the World Cup short...
http://vimeo.com/10900488

Fuji did this great test...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV0UQBLZL5o

What's different is that the companies are putting cash on screen to make their cameras look really good, delaying the results to control opinions.

Red is just letting the cameras out into the wild, so the first thing we see is community test footage of nature, friends, pets -- instead of highly produced, carefully controlled, 10ton, eye candy.

I really appreciate the effort that Steve, Brook, Greg, etc, have made in sharing early footage - I'd rather have that any day than waiting for the fancy showpiece.

But first impressions do count, and it can be hard to shake your first opinion.


The camera will speak for itself in time. Just look at the red stills thread.
 
I think Red's crowd-sourcing attitude it taking more of a hit than anything else in the first article. We all know what we're looking for in these images: 4k at 96 fps, 5k resolving power, etc. - somebody from outside - so to speak - is looking at it as if it were Red's demo reel. Ok, he didn't like the grade - whatever.

Sergio and Ketch were creating something exciting for those of us inside the bubble - and BTW - thanks for taking the time.

And regarding the second article, the F3 is a great leap forward in mid-range HD cameras - good on them.
 
I think someone is just jealous...
 
I think what Zach is saying is partially true. But remember, we get to see "behind the curtain". So, the "testing" footage we get to see is because RED has that "behind the curtain" mentality and are OK with people putting up un-graded test footage, so we can all see what EPIC can do.

Remember back to what your initial reaction was to the first RED REEL, and then on to the MX REEL. All those other companies are giving us their "REEL" as our first look...no "behind the curtain" with them...so yes, it's a double edged sword, but I for one am glad I get to follow the development process. I feel like I know and understand much more because of the time and effort people put into their camera (and share their experiences) before I have mine in my hands.
 
Ah, controversial articles which will definitely attract clicks and posts. Good work, Koo. Good work.

--

That being said, I feel like - as others have said - there is some validity to the points he makes in both articles.

Test footage so far isn't being presented in a mind-numbingly awesome totally amazing rockfest of retina-searing awesomeness. I wouldn't sit in front of my TV with a bag of popcorn and watch any of it over and over for a couple hours, drooling because the intensity of the images have reduced my brain to a vegitative state. But it is interesting to look at and see what the footage is offering in a critical sense - even despite vimeo compression and so on. And that, to me, has been a very satisfying experience. Now if we could all watch it on 40ft screens in glorious 4K, I doubt the same would be true. I'd probably be drooling all over myself and my 7D.

Thanks to all of those who have taken their cameras and done tests, and then turned around and spent hours answering questions and uploading footage. It is so great that you would do that, and really underscores the strong sense of community here.

And, I do believe his math is correct. On paper the F3 has a physically greater ability to gather light per pixel. As has been discussed over and over on this forum and elsewhere, though, that's not all that matters.

I'm sure as these cameras are released we'll get a better picture of how the overall camera systems respond to low-light situations. At that point, I hope Koo finds it worth worth his time to write a blog post with the results.

--

EDIT: I have a feeling that we will be seeing some much more eye-popping footage from an EPIC reel at NAB - more likely than not shot by the same people currently (and very generously) posting their camera tests up for us. Perhaps also something worth another blog post by the Kooster.
 
Don"t worry Ketch... introduce some girls to him ;) heheh
happy shooting mate
see you in vegas!!
 
Hate to say it...but as much as the test footage looks EPIC, can you imagine the films being done on EPIC?! THEY WILL LOOK AMAZING, shown in 4K etc. they will be stunning

I can honestly say though that ok, these cameras can have as much profesional footage as they want but put them head to head with the EPIC and we shall see...give it time and when RED is ready, they will be more then just pulling guns out, they'll have rockets and the rest will be holding guns

Let anyone batter RED with bad comments, I think what every M owner knows and what every future X owner knows, is this is the camera to keep close..

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong M owners...

but what I've read, seen etc. so far... I have no doubt when X hits the first owner, it'll make R1 look like old tech... I'm personally excited for X to come to Singapore and have the fun that I see every other M owner having...

It's been a wild ride but as I'm sure some agree...

This is the only the start...what's Sony got or Panasonic that RED needs to fear?

Nothing.


Sticking with test footage,

I personally love all the stuffs that been presented...I can't wait to see the films but naturally thats a bit away, so test footage wise, I'm still jaw smacked with what's possible...I've never wanted a piece of tech so much...
 
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