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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Makeup showing up with greenish hue

axel ebermann

axel ebermann

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Hey guys,

Here is a new, very unpleasant phenomenon, that
I have witnessed during some of my recent productions.

What seems to happen is that a certain kind of makeup gives off a greenish hue. The more make up needs to be layered on (for example because of wrinkles etc.) the worse it seems to get.
You see the difference if you compare the skin tone in areas where no make up is applied to the skin tone where more make up is applied - for example around the eyes.

I experienced that on several productions with several make up people who I know are good at what they do.
They swear they did not change the brand or mix of the makeup.
However I have never seen this before.

Because strangely everybody always likes to blame everything on the Red One I took some stills with a 5D on the last set and the green is also there - although not as pronounced.

The unpleasant thing about this is that you cannot easily time out the green without bringing the rest of the skin tone towards magenta.
You can key it out with a proper color timing - however a lot of clients don't do that because of timing and budget restraints and what you end up with are high end promos that go on air looking absolutely awful...

The sample pictures are not color corrected on purpose by the way.

higher res sample pics:

www.previewproductionusa.com/downloads/sample_1.jpg
www.previewproductionusa.com/downloads/sample_2.jpg

Anybody got any wisdom to share ? Would be very much appreciated.
 

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What kind of lights were used?

I have seen it once before and if I remember correctly it was a combination of make-up and fluorescent lights. Most fluorescent lights have a peak somewhere in the green spectrum that is normally not visible unless there is something that matches that color, and then that object tends to lights up green.

The better the lights, the less pronounced the effect is but with faces you need only a tiny bit of it to see it since our eyes are so sensitive for skin colors.
 
also are you using redcolor2 redgamma2? it makes everything a lot more natural, especially with skin tones.

you could also change the color to "camerargb" and suck out all the hue and saturation and retime the image, and use it as ur look in RCX.
 
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tungsten fresnels. the other set was a briese umbrella.
the strange thing is that I have shot with these lights
under similar circumstances before and it never showed up.

sander kamp said:
What kind of lights were used?

I have seen it once before and if I remember correctly it was a combination of make-up and fluorescent lights. Most fluorescent lights have a peak somewhere in the green spectrum that is normally not visible unless there is something that matches that color, and then that object tends to lights up green.

The better the lights, the less pronounced the effect is but with faces you need only a tiny bit of it to see it since our eyes are so sensitive for skin colors.
Click to expand...
 
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mr. tom,

I know how to color correct. but that has nothing to do with make up suddenly showing of greenish.

you were on one of those jobs by the way :-)

and the make up looks green. just look at the promos of the gentleman we shot together who I'd prefer not to name here because of certain sensitivities of the client...




Tom.Wong said:
also are you using redcolor2 redgamma2? it makes everything a lot more natural, especially with skin tones.

you could also change the color to "camerargb" and suck out all the hue and saturation and retime the image, and use it as ur look in RCX.
Click to expand...
 
not insulting your ability or knowledge, just trying to provide you with a better work around since you say it's very hard to knock out the hue. the leaning in color could be a lot of factors, including what was mentioned with the lighting. just wanted to give my 2 cents and help out :)

if you see it on your 5d sensor too, than I may have to agree that it is something with the lights. fluorescent lighting as you know tends to lean towards color hues such as magenta or green when they start going. I wouldn't really blame the camera if it's showing up on two different sensors.

also it could be a combo of their certain skin tone with make up making it more likely to reflect the green too. lot of variations on the issue.
 
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no offense taken my friend :-)

I am alluding to a makeup problem though. not how
to fix a problem in post that should not pop up in the first place...

we did not use fluorescents on those sets by the way.

check out your private message and you will know exactly what I am talking about ('cause you were there...)




Tom.Wong said:
not insulting your ability or knowledge, just trying to provide you with a better work around since you say it's very hard to knock out the hue. the leaning in color could be a lot of factors, including what was mentioned with the lighting. just wanted to give my 2 cents and help out :)

if you see it on your 5d sensor too, than I may have to agree that it is something with the lights. fluorescent lighting as you know tends to lean towards color hues such as magenta or green when they start going. I wouldn't really blame the camera if it's showing up on two different sensors.

also it could be a combo of their certain skin tone with make up making it more likely to reflect the green too. lot of variations on the issue.
Click to expand...
 
So then...maybe it's the makeup? A bad batch of whatever you normally use?
 
I guess a stupid question but there's nothing else that can reflect green somewhere?

Otherwise I would say make-up. In the one instance I saw it on the set it went away but using different make-up.
 
nope. no green. plus it would be strange that this reflected makeup
only gets attracted by the makeup - and not the rest of the skin...


sander kamp said:
I guess a stupid question but there's nothing else that can reflect green somewhere?

Otherwise I would say make-up. In the one instance I saw it on the set it went away but using different make-up.
Click to expand...
 
I've noticed this happen on a few of my shoots - both on RED and Canon 5d. In these frame grabs (shot on 5d) I can see a kind of yellowy-green patchiness across the face. This often happens under tungsten lighting, I find. And yes, the white balance was set properly and light was clean (i.e. - no other light pollution).

canon_face.png


canon_CU_face.png
 
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Are you sure the house lights weren't on in the studio? It can be easy to forget to kill the house flouros before takes, ifnyou are turning them on when not rolling to give some light to the makeup/wardrobe/ crafties what have you. They, being several stops under, would only effect the shadows, and the makeup tends to darken the skin and maybe bring it down into a range where itnwill be effected. Or the makeup can react strangely to the green spike maybe. I know you lit it with tungsten but I've had the same thing happen to me when you blank on the house lights during a hectic shoot.
 
so, we've pretty much eliminated everything (including camera, makeup, individual, etc.) except the lighting conditions. perhaps this is inherent in the lighting sources used. for example, have you seen it happen in natural light or with daylight balanced lights?

maybe try a test with the same camera using different types of light sources, and with different gels. also look at any filters that are on the lens (or not on). for example, is it possible an infrared filter is overstepping its bounds?
 
My theory is that certain kinds of makeup have different ingredients, and whatever type of makeup was used on that shoot as some combo of ingredients that reflect light towards the green. You'd have to use process of elimination to figure out which types of makeup react this way though...
 
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