had a big argument today

[Jannard]

so they should be interested to give the personal owners time frames to make money out of their gear to buy more red gear.

What kind of timeframes would you like? We give our best estimates given the info we have. Obviously pushing the envelop is harder than you (or we) could have ever expected. The other camera companies aren't doing what we are so it is hard to use them as a reference. If we were just doing an evolutionary improvement to the RED ONE... this would have been done a long time ago. But 66% more resolution, 4X the frame rates, significantly higher data rates in a package 1/3 the size is NOT evolutionary.

So you want us to give you dates. We do, then miss them and get a bad reputation for delivery... which we deservedly have right now.

What else would you like us to do?

Jim

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

hey, maybe its my english, but what i meant is, that there is NO line skipping at red for rental companies

edit: i guess i know why, the word time frame means something like an expected date of delivery or so? wasnt meant that way.

 

[Michael Hastings]

I spoke with an Arri rep, and just said: RAW...
His reply?
Anyone can do RAW. RAW is simple.
Maybe so...

There seems to be something common about how digital cinema cameras are initially finished:

No playback
No audio
No scaling

I think that's fine.

Not to be too cynical, but this is part of the reason why these are spec'd as digital cinema cameras - a great deal of what we are accustomed to in the pro (and consumer) video world can be ignored or delayed (sync sound, auto iris, autofocus, playback, etc) because it wasn't a part of the film cinema world, so not considered a step backward.

And raw is easy - it's raw! Except for the data transfer/storage issue at motion picture speeds. Compressed raw? We don't know, cause we don't know what is discarded... And that's okay, it has proven to be quite workable. But it leaves room for argument... And competition... It's all good.

Sony, panasonic, canon, and Nikon have been working for decades to create really nice out of the box pictures. Arri has been a prime mover in the cine world. And now Red has come along and woken them all up for a new round of competition and innovation. And I'm lucky enough to be on the early list for the next gen, and can enjoy shooting with an exceptional camera while it all plays out! :smile:

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I wasn't trying to take a stab at anyone, really... Just observing.

And i'd much rather have a 5k 25fps Epic that did only that, than nothing - like I gladly accepted the original RED 1 when it was still in "beta" and long before featurelock (on release builds).

I don't mind.
It's just funny to see that what RED was once bashed for as a deliverymethod has rapidly become the standard way of doing stuff.

But while when RED did it, it was "unacceptable" it is now kind of "fine" when Arri does it...

 

[Maz Mawlawi]

:smile:

What kind of timeframes would you like? We give our best estimates given the info we have. Obviously pushing the envelop is harder than you (or we) could have ever expected. The other camera companies aren't doing what we are so it is hard to use them as a reference. If we were just doing an evolutionary improvement to the RED ONE... this would have been done a long time ago. But 66% more resolution, 4X the frame rates, significantly higher data rates in a package 1/3 the size is NOT evolutionary.

So you want us to give you dates. We do, then miss them and get a bad reputation for delivery... which we deservedly have right now.

What else would you like us to do?

Jim

Just please make sure there are enough accessories (especially recording media) to meet demand when the Epic comes out. :smile:

 

[RivaiC]

Please ask Arri if they could record RAW 5K in 250fps, comparable to EPIC if it's so simple. Alexa function isnt so different compare to RED and their highspeed goes up to 60fps only. their RAW ? I dont think they can record RAW on Alexa yet isnt it ? They're so much worse than RED in this aspect.

I dont know what is happening but one of the rental house here have Alexa in their possession and guess what ? They are using AJA to record Alexa file. Why ? I dont know..something to think about.

One thing for sure ARRI has been observing and study for long behind RED.

Rivai

 

[Nils Ruinet]

Please ask Arri if they could record RAW 5K in 250fps, comparable to EPIC if it's so simple.

I think Epic is limited to 120 fps in 5K RAW, not 250 fps...:001_huh:
(which is already impressive)

 

[RivaiC]

Nils yeah sorry. 250fps in 2K mode, not 4K

Cheers

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

As a current Red owner it's all good news:

1. I already have a fantastic camera that exceeded my expectations
2. It hasn't cost me an extra dollar since delivery
3. It will only get better when Epic arrives

And the firmware updates really makes big differences. Not like a update on a hvx200 were you just get the camera to recording a bigger p2 card.

 

[Timur Civan]

Well the OP brings up a point i have been thinking about. IF the project is so good its gotta have epic, and since you "cant plan around" reds schedule you mind as well not shoot it. Well i mean, whats the REDMX, a door stop all of a sudden?

I mean yea Epic is great, but the MX is astounding. What do you guy plan on doing with your MX's, tossing them to the curb? People are acting like the REDMX is a load of crap that isnt worth working with any more..... I think the MX is great. I'd Be more than happy to have one.