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Scarlet Vs. Cinema

Matthew D. Tierney

Matthew D. Tierney

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Hi Reduser forums, first post.

I've been trawling these forums for a while now trying to make sense of everything.

I have a question about the 3K Scarlet.

I enjoyed some of Jims comments on the Tips and Thoughts page, and the Frame Size comparisons here: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40067&page=3

In particular these comments:

I have said this before but I'll say it again, shooting features or serious television in 1080P is a big mistake. Since this view will certainly get thrown around the industry, let me explain why.

1. With the certain new standard of 4K delivery for movies AND tv, anything shot on 1080P will be left in the cold for a re-release. Several major companies have 4K displays and projectors nearing release to theaters and to the public. Sony has already converted many theaters to their 4K projectors. Epson has a killer home 4K projector in waiting. Panasonic, Samsung, Christie, Barco, Sharp, Meridian, and others are ready to get their fair share.

2. 1080P is not a quality replacement for film. It has 1/4 the actual measured resolution of film (some less than that). To make the "big screen" it needs sharpening. Often times lots of it. Sharpening is not good for the skin. Real resolution beats sharpening every time... by a lot.

It is my firm belief that hindsight will show the 1st two digital standards, SD and HD, will be considered "mistakes" in the not to distant future. Film will never be considered a mistake. It is the gold standard. It will hold up to 4K releases and you will see many classics re-released in 4K.

Don't count television out of 4K. The delivery mechanism is coming.

I started RED because I did not believe that 1080P was an adequate replacement for film. I love film. When its day is done, we need to honor it with at least as good an image... hopefully better. 1080P is not it.
Click to expand...
So Scarlet is 3K right? I want to understand what the logic is behind these kinds of comparisons, but then also the release of a camera that is sub-4k cinema.

Am I correct in assuming a Scarlet is capable of creating Cinema quality content, but less than the 4K standard will hardly be future-proofed, right?

Sorry if these questions have been asked before but this forum has so many posts.

Regards,

Matt
 
Going from 3K to 4K is like going from 720p to 1080p. You can probably live with it.

Going from 1080p to 4K is like going from SD video to 1080p. Ouch.
 
Think 16mm film camera.

Scarlet 3K has 2.28 times more resolution than 1080P. However, if it were me and I was shooting "a serious TV show or feature", I stand by my statement that if you have the budget, you should shoot it on a RED ONE or an EPIC. If you don't have the budget, Scarlet is the answer. And 3K does up-rez to 4K... when 1080P won't.

Jim
 
Thanks for the fast responses guys.

If anyone has the time I'd be interested also in the logic behind a fixed lens system.

For indies, or people on a tight budget, it obviously means theres no room for experimentation with different lens types.

Is the Scarlet an ideal tool for teaching cinematography? Would you say this fixed lens system limits that in some way?

I was considering an AF100 which is obviously limited by the resolution, but on the other hand can offer a lot by way of interchangeable lens.
 
Matthew D. Tierney said:
Thanks for the fast responses guys.

If anyone has the time I'd be interested also in the logic behind a fixed lens system.

For indies, or people on a tight budget, it obviously means theres no room for experimentation with different lens types.

Is the Scarlet an ideal tool for teaching cinematography? Would you say this fixed lens system limits that in some way?

I was considering an AF100 which is obviously limited by the resolution, but on the other hand can offer a lot by way of interchangeable lens.
Click to expand...

There is an interchangeable lens Scarlet model also.

Jim
 
Matthew D. Tierney said:
Thanks for the fast responses guys.

If anyone has the time I'd be interested also in the logic behind a fixed lens system.

For indies, or people on a tight budget, it obviously means theres no room for experimentation with different lens types.

Is the Scarlet an ideal tool for teaching cinematography? Would you say this fixed lens system limits that in some way?

I was considering an AF100 which is obviously limited by the resolution, but on the other hand can offer a lot by way of interchangeable lens.
Click to expand...

Some people will want the fixed; while others want interchangeable. RED has been so kind to make both options available...
 
In fact, it's funny that you would name the subject of this thread as such. The two Scarlet models were officially named the "FIXED" and "CINEMA" Scarlet...however since then, many people have begun to call the Cinema Scarlet Brain the "Interchangeable Lensed Scarlet...

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There's so much stuff to wade through on these forums, it takes a long time before things actually make any kind of sense. So apologies for my ignorance. Its exciting to see these products materialize :)

I was under the assumption the Fixed was all there was, and the S35 had become Epic.

So this 'Cinema' camera has me sold.

Cheers.
 
Matthew D. Tierney said:
There's so much stuff to wade through on these forums, it takes a long time before things actually make any kind of sense. So apologies for my ignorance. Its exciting to see these products materialize :)

I was under the assumption the Fixed was all there was, and the S35 had become Epic.

So this 'Cinema' camera has me sold.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

No problem. Welcome to the forums!

Originally, when the first announcement regarding the DSMC came in back on Nov 13th, 2008, there were 4 Scarlet models announced.

2/3" FIXED
2/3" CINEMA
S35
FF35​

Since then, the first two (FIXED/CINEMA) have stuck. While the S35 format has joined the ranks of the EPIC and is now known as the EPIC-S (the "S" representing (1) Standard EPIC (2) what we used to think of as a high end Scarlet).

I would assume that the FF35 will probably become named something else than a Scarlet but that doesn't matter too much because it will be utilizing the MONSTRO sensor (RED's 3rd generation sensor) and is still in early development...
 
Gunleik Groven said:
There's allways this option... as an alternative to the 2/3" fixed...

(actually I thought it was taken out of production years ago. but it still hangs in there)

remember the deck, the framerate converter, the pro35, and the 720 --> 1080 uprezzer...

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webap...alogId=13051&itemId=94208&surfModel=AJ-HDC27H

(or maybe this cam belongs in the DVXuser - area...)
Click to expand...

Or this...

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadcastcameras/cat-cinealta/product-F23/

It's kind of ironic, the new Narnia was shot on the F23, and that's the first thing I thought of when I saw the new Scarlet footage...
 
Gunleik Groven said:
And, BTW - the FF was always "Monstro", which seems to be forgotten frequently...
Click to expand...

So is it right that the current Red camera is about to go out of production, but that sensor will live on in the S35 ?
 
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Saied_M said:
So is it right that the current Red camera is about to go out of production, but that sensor lives on in the S35 ?
Click to expand...

That - I think - will fully depend on demand...

If people continue to buy R1 MX in heaps, I guess RED will still sell them.
If not... There's no point, really, is it?

There is the big question of what RED plan to do with some thousand R1 bodies after stage three, too.

I guess they have a plan, and I have hoped for a dirty filmschool move, to familiarize all/a lot of the students with the format in an early stage.

that would be a really smart and visionary move to take over even larger portions of the market 3 years down the line...

LOL
 
Gunleik Groven said:
There is the big question of what RED plan to do with some thousand R1 bodies after stage three, too.
Click to expand...

They'll probably take the sensors out of each of them, glue them all together, and make a 150k camera to sell to some hollywood studio who wishes to create a theatre the size of a small town. They shall call it IMAX... of wait that's taken, maybe REDMAX? Ok, that's bed time for me I think.
 
Joseph Hutson said:
Some people will want the fixed; while others want interchangeable. RED has been so kind to make both options available...
Click to expand...

To add to that point Joseph, you would be spending in excess of the price of a Scarlet Cine (and likely fixed brain) for a decent quality zoom with robust cine-style build quality, optimised for 3K, quality barrel, hard stop, FF gearing, fast zoom lens that is constant t-value through zoom.

So with that logic I intend to buy both. The mantra is: The fixed is just as much a camera with a lens, as a lens with a camera.
 
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