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A Response To Jim Jannard and 1080P

Steve Sherrick

Steve Sherrick

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I know Jim has closed down the thread about his view of 1080P, but I just got around to giving a more thorough response. It can be found at:
http://www.stevesherrick.com

Feel free to comment there or here. It's an interesting discussion.
 
There are a couple of simple facts...

The ACTUAL MEASURED resolution of the very best 1080P camera (Sony F35) is 1,625,625 pixels.

The very best MEASURED RESOLUTION from slow speed S35mm film from a 4K scan is 5,760,000 pixels. That is 3.5 times the measured resolution of the very best 1080P camera.

EPIC actual MEASURED RESOLUTION is 8,847,360 pixels. That is about 5.5 times more resolution than the very best 1080P camera.

Once again, simple facts.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
There are a couple of simple facts...

The ACTUAL MEASURED resolution of the very best 1080P camera (Sony F35) is 1,625,625 pixels.

The very best MEASURED RESOLUTION from slow speed S35mm film from a 4K scan is 5,760,000 pixels. That is 3.5 times the measured resolution of the very best 1080P camera.

EPIC actual MEASURED RESOLUTION is 8,847,360 pixels. That is about 5.5 times more resolution than the very best 1080P camera.

Once again, simple facts.

Jim
Click to expand...

And the Sony looks rather harsh...

The more pleasing looking 1080 cams are a tad soft...

Gee...

And the Epic has the DR, too...
 
All 1080P cameras need to be sharpened for the big screen... a lot.

Jim
 
4 years ago I posted something about the future of the digital image being 300 DPI and the reversion to smaller screens with increased DPI rather than larger "bigger" pixels. With the advent of the iPhone4 'Retina' display, the market is now primed and hungry for "print quality" digital imagery and graphics.

4K now is now more relevant than ever. It will become the minimum standard of image acquisition for 300DPI screen devices. The larger devices will naturally ofcourse benefit.
 
I don't work on the big screen - never will probably - but us TV types have money to spend.

We used a R1 at the US Open tennis this year to shoot 120fps shots of Nadal and others. The time required to ingest and transcode the footage limited how much we could use the RED material in the live broadcasts.

For us - and many in TV, 1080p capture to ProRes or similar via Epic would be the game-changer.

I hope my request might be seen in the polite and respectful manner in which it is intended, and not be deleted again.

Merry Christmas to all on Red User.
 
Ben Holmes said:
I don't work on the big screen - never will probably - but us TV types have money to spend.

We used a R1 at the US Open tennis this year to shoot 120fps shots of Nadal and others. The time required to ingest and transcode the footage limited how much we could use the RED material in the live broadcasts.

For us - and many in TV, 1080p capture to ProRes or similar via Epic would be the game-changer.

I hope my request might be seen in the polite and respectful manner in which it is intended, and not be deleted again.

Merry Christmas to all on Red User.
Click to expand...

Recording to 1080P ProRes is coming... but what happens when TV goes to 4K? We'll give you what you ask for... but need to tell you that 1080P's days are numbered.

BTW... you can also record 720P and transcode to SD. Every option is available. Ever wonder why YouTube has a 4K option?

Jim
 
I've decided. I need to talk louder...

Jim
 
Thanks for the article, Steve. Very simple and straight to the point.

Jannard said:
Once again, simple facts.

Jim
Click to expand...

Totally agree. We can talk forever about what constitues a "mistake", but the FACTS remain.
I didn't have time to reply to the "big mistake" thread, so I apologize if I post here what I wanted to say there. I know it's not a big example in the grand scheme of things, but in Italy most tv series are still shot on film, most on 16mm, some (the "big" ones) on 35mm. Even with the introduction of 1080p cameras, things didn't change, because cinematographers, directors and producers didn't feel those images were the same quality of the ones shot on film. In other words, saying something is "good enough" doesn't mean it's actually "good", and when I hear "it's good enough for what we have NOW", I can't help but thinking that "now" becomes "yesterday" very, very quickly.

Needless to say, things are changing now: it's as if we "skipped" the 1080p generation and we're moving straight to 4k capture, with Red (and hopefully 5k with Epic soon). The #1 series this year in Italy was shot on Red, as some of the best new ones. There was also a big production, shot on Red, destined to tv, that was "moved" to theatrical release because the filmmakers thought it was too good for tv, and it was a huge success.
Ironically, this happens in a country where theatrical digital projection is still in its infancy and where HD channels are still very few. I guess it's better to be ready NOW for what's coming than to be sorry later...


p.s. Merry Christmas to Jim, Jarred, Ted, all the Red Staff, and all the RedUser community!
 
As much as I can see why many including myself would benefit from a 1080 prores module, I cant help to admit that its starting to feel like a dated concept already...I know its the "Current" workflow for many including myself....but hell, workflows are being re invented on a daily basis and catered individually these days.

Options are good right Jim, its hard to keep up with you when your some how living 5-10 years ahead of the rest of us. ;) Build it and they will come, but a few bridges might be necessary?
 
Francesco Bonomo said:
but in Italy most tv series are still shot on film, most on 16mm, some (the "big" ones) on 35mm. Even with the introduction of 1080p cameras, things didn't change, because cinematographers, directors and producers didn't feel those images were the same quality of the ones shot on film.
Click to expand...

Exactly the same thing in France.

Francesco Bonomo said:
it's as if we "skipped" the 1080p generation and we're moving straight to 4k capture, with Red (and hopefully 5k with Epic soon).
Click to expand...

I hope to skip that too and to go at least directly to 3K capture.
 
It isn't hard for me to see the future. I have to wonder why it is so hard for some.

We built a film replacement camera. Film is future-proof but it has Moore's Law issues. 1080P is not future-proof. Pretty easy to understand. The surprise is how many people bought into the real scam... at the highest level. I am really amazed at the spell that the industry fell under on this one...

Jim
 
In the near future... the same companies that told you 1080P "was good enough" will release 4K cameras and tell you a new story. Mark my words.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
In the near future... the same companies that told you 1080P "was good enough" will release 4K cameras and tell you a new story. Mark my words.

Jim
Click to expand...

I was about to write the same thing. But it's getting harder and harder for them to say it and keep a serious face when 4k cameras are already available and shooting amazing stuff, isn't it? Which, by the way, makes the whole "we're releasing a new 1080p camera in 2010/2011" even more ridicolous, IMHO...
 
Jannard said:
In the near future... the same companies that told you 1080P "was good enough" will release 4K cameras and tell you a new story. Mark my words.

Jim
Click to expand...

This is the TRUTH
 
In September at the exhibition "Cinec" in Munich there was a survey by a camera manufacturer about what features people would expect in a future camera. The results were published now: 49% want 4K resolution and a S35 sensor, 19% voted for 1080p.
 
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