Red 17-50 on a 5D mkII

[Kim Frank]

There is the zoom equivalent of the Compact Primes CP2. It's called Lightweightzoom LW2
http://www.zeiss.com/compactprime
It has an interchangeable mount also for Canon DSLRs. This one reads the 35 full frame sensor, and I would assume that it's the best sollution for someone that wants a high quality cine Zoom and the advantages of a 5dII vs. 7D. It has a focal length range from 15,5-45 and a T stop of 2.6. So very nice for all handeld work.

 

[R. Schorman]

$29,000 for the zoom??? Are they crazy??? How about a bag full of 17-50s instead.

 

[neil hartop]

One step forward, two steps back. But seriously, why stop there? Why not use a Master Prime on a 5D?

Thats a really sarccy coment Mark,

Your attitude is two steps backward. An Epic is going to cost 30 thousand pounds, slight difference than that guy using his 2 grand 5d. Its a shame everyone on this forum as such an awful elitist attitude. Makes me so sad.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Not FF

Not FF

There is the zoom equivalent of the Compact Primes CP2. It's called Lightweightzoom LW2
http://www.zeiss.com/compactprime
It has an interchangeable mount also for Canon DSLRs. This one reads the 35 full frame sensor, and I would assume that it's the best sollution for someone that wants a high quality cine Zoom and the advantages of a 5dII vs. 7D. It has a focal length range from 15,5-45 and a T stop of 2.6. So very nice for all handeld work.

Guys please don't spread bad info here 18x24 is not full frame coverage.....

 

[JD Holloway]

@ Sanjin:
But if I'm not wrong my friend also wanted to shoot on the 5dmkII cause it has a bit-rate of 40-45 Mbp/s while something like the Panasonic's under 24. Anyway that could be very interresting to try.

I don't think the #s are good for comparison. The 5D digic 4 under performs at the claimed 40+Mbps. Secondly, codecs are vastly different. The 5D has terrible MOTION image processors and the GH2 has real 8bit 1080 422 hdmi if you want to go the 150 Mbps nanoflash route (I would for a "real" show). Plus it loops-through to video village (not sure about hdmi to hd-sdi though, may need black magic box and go hdmi to sdi then into the nano/kipro) test ,test,test. Nano should also get you 60P recording at 1080...

...of course an on-board 40+ Mbp/s firmware hack isn't out of the question either in time...

That being said, with 17 mm as widest on RPZoom I would add the Duclos 11-16 for the wide end. They will cut "good enough" on this "good enough" rig.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Guys please don't spread bad info here 18x24 is not full frame coverage.....

Agreed, and emphasized!

I suggest using RED's nomenclature.

The LWZ.2 covers the S35 full aperture film frame. (24.9 mm x 18.7 mm)

A Zeiss representative told me it covered APS-H format (1Dmk4, 28.7x19mm) throughout the complete zoom range. (He may have been speaking about just the video function, which crops the top and bottom of the frame to make 1.85:1... I don't know the effective sensor size for that.)

I don't think it covers EPIC at 5K (30x24mm) through its full zoom range, but I don't know of any tests.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

I don't think the #s are good for comparison. The 5D digic 4 under performs at the claimed 40+Mbps. Secondly, codecs are vastly different. The 5D has terrible MOTION image processors and the GH2 has real 8bit 1080 422 hdmi if you want to go the 150 Mbps nanoflash route (I would for a "real" show). Plus it loops-through to video village (not sure about hdmi to hd-sdi though, may need black magic box and go hdmi to sdi then into the nano/kipro) test ,test,test. Nano should also get you 60P recording at 1080...

...of course a 40+ Mbp/s firmware hack isn't out of the question either in time...

That being said, with 17 mm as widest on RPZoom I would add the Duclos 11-16 for the wide end. They will cut "good enough" on this "good enough" rig.

Of course the numbers make a good basis for comparison. All of this is data- and that's just another way of saying numbers.

The real problem is that the codec can't be characterized solely by any given number.

All that the data rate really tells you is that the codec is more lightly compressed. That's important of course, but there are other factors.

For example the codec/chipset handling of motion. I disagree with your estimation by the way... I've definitely shot decent fast motion with the 7D. So... it may be the camera specifically... but it is not the Digic 4 chips at fault.

(I lay most of the image issues with these cameras on the way the sensor is sampled- i.e. pixel skipping)

The Nano is a great option of course and I recommend it and the KiPro for most low end cameras. (DSLR's with a clean HDMI out, the AF100, the F3, and all the XDCAM EX cameras.)

 

[Mark Phelan]

Thats a really sarccy coment Mark,

Your attitude is two steps backward. An Epic is going to cost 30 thousand pounds, slight difference than that guy using his 2 grand 5d. Its a shame everyone on this forum as such an awful elitist attitude. Makes me so sad.

LOL! Thanks for that, you put a smile on my face. First calling my comment "sarccy" which I presume you meant "scary" and secondly by saying it was "scary". If that sort of comment actually frightens you, then I have a GEICO commercial starring R. Lee Ermy for you to watch.

I take exception to your comment about "everyone on this forum" having "such an awful elitist attitude". I have found it to be quite the contrary. Most on this forum are upstanding folks, ready to offer good, sound advice based upon their experience. It's a great place to learn.

If you would just read further down into the forum before posting, you would have been enlightened to my position. And you know what? It's just an opinion, like belly buttons, everybody has one. But it's certainly nothing to be scared of.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Forget 5DMK2 with cine PL lenses.

Also forget AF100 just because it's a bulky box old-fashioned video camera.

GH2 to PL mount is only way to go.

Excellent image quality, many awesome stills and video features also great DSLR like ergonomics

for just 1000 bucks and overall much better than AF100

(also don't trust AF100 gurus just because they have to live from something, did you get it???!!!).

Hot-Rod PL mount is available also for GH2.

I agree that the GH2 seems to be the way to go, but I'd couple it with a KiPro. Then the GH2 is just a sensor block piped into the KiPro, where I can also pipe in audio.

That makes it a better value than AF100.

Don't discount the AF100 though. Its a smart camera and well designed for motion, unlike the GH2.

I'd still want to mount an external recorder on the AF100, so its MUCH more expensive than the GH2. I think you get something for your money though.

I hate the 4/3" sensor system though. I like the PL mount... but I don't like that a 35mm lens is equivalent to an S35 45mm lens. Still I can get by with a Tokina 11-16 and a RPZ 17-50 or LWZ.2 rather well.

If you are spending that much, I'd rather look at the Sony F3, which isn't too far off the mark for an AF100+KiPro. I am not a fan of the XDCAM codec, but I can live with it- and I have on some projects. Its a much better system than any of the DSLRs and the AF100. (Of course... now we are talking Epic Light prices)

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

I don't know if its been mentioned yet, but Angeniuex is making EF and F mounts for its Optimo lenses (not the Optimo DPs)

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

LOL! Thanks for that, you put a smile on my face. First calling my comment "sarccy" which I presume you meant "scary" and ...

I think he meant "sarcy" as in "sarcasticy," as in he's trying to coin new slang for sarcastic.

Which your comment definitely was. Sarcastic I mean.

Maybe even sarcaustic, to borrow from the Devil's Dictionary.

In any case, I do take issue with your point that it isn't worth using good lenses on these cameras.

I think any camera can be improved with good lenses.

I take great pleasure shooting with various Zeiss lenses on the various DSLRs. My favorite combination so far is the LWZ.2 on the 7D.

Yes the images look better, but more importantly real cine glass makes my working day go much faster and with less trouble.

These cameras aren't very good compared to the rest of the market today.

Of course when you compare to the idea of shooting using a Letus on a Canon HV20 the Canon 7D is absolutely marvelous.

Yes, if the budget is there, I'll drop any of this junk in a heartbeat for a RED One MX on almost any shot.

Perspective people.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

PL2EOS setups

PL2EOS setups

@ Sanjin:
You're right, I tried the GH2 @ Photokina and the full video settings through touchscreen... well that was really cool ! But if I'm not wrong my friend also wanted to shoot on the 5dmkII cause it has a bitrate of 40-45mbps while something like the panasonic's under 24. Anyway that could be very interresting to try.

@ Jacek: I've found something interresting here: http://kcwtechnica.com/
A Pl mount to canon eos. Do you know this and do you think it's could be good?
Thanks
Franck

There are many PL2EOS solutions on the market. all except mine pretty much the same.
I designed mine with a support and handle integrated into the adapter for a few reasons:
1. the support take all strain from the weight of, usually much heavier, cine lenses to the camera mount/body. This way the back focus will not drift from the lens putting pressure on the Camera.
Also excessive strain can bend the fragile EOS camera mount. With my adapter you essentially mount the lens on it and attach the camera to the back-much like dealing with heavy telephoto lenses in the still camera world..
The support has several 3/8-16 threaded holes in it so you can easily mount the whole setup on a base plate and balance it properly. Check out the picture below.
2. The adjustable handle will make it easy to pickup/carry , has mounting holes for a light, zoom motor, FF etc. I also supply a clip that secures it to the hot shoe mount on top of the camera so the setup is solid - like mounted in a cage- only lighter and less bulky.
So to conclude with my setup you also get lens support and smething similar to cage all in one.
If you want to take it further than there is my rig....:thumbsup:

 

[Mark Phelan]

I think he meant "sarcy" as in "sarcasticy," as in he's trying to coin new slang for sarcastic.

Which your comment definitely was. Sarcastic I mean.

Maybe even sarcaustic, to borrow from the Devil's Dictionary.

In any case, I do take issue with your point that it isn't worth using good lenses on these cameras.

I think any camera can be improved with good lenses.

I take great pleasure shooting with various Zeiss lenses on the various DSLRs. My favorite combination so far is the LWZ.2 on the 7D.

Yes the images look better, but more importantly real cine glass makes my working day go much faster and with less trouble.

These cameras aren't very good compared to the rest of the market today.

Of course when you compare to the idea of shooting using a Letus on a Canon HV20 the Canon 7D is absolutely marvelous.

Yes, if the budget is there, I'll drop any of this junk in a heartbeat for a RED One MX on almost any shot.

Perspective people.

See, I just can't keep up with the new lingo of the day.

And I have no problem with your taking exception to my viewpoint, it's nothing I would take a stand over, that's for sure. Just an opinion.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

See, I just can't keep up with the new lingo of the day.

And I have no problem with your taking exception to my viewpoint, it's nothing I would take a stand over, that's for sure. Just an opinion.

Oh, I probably wouldn't have gotten it either, except that I was thinking your remark was sarcastic when I read it. Let's just say I don't think it will catch on.

As to anybody taking legitimate issue, I am happy it happens. We are different film makers and our approach to tools is part of that difference.

Just so long as we are all having fun and spreading the craft.

I really do think these little cameras are unfairly discounted, but on the flip side that certainly doesn't make them the last word in cameras as many seem to think.

The same can be said of RED One. Or an ARRI 435 with your favorite stock.

EPIC will take the last place I want to use a DSLR out of the picture. (shots that need very small cameras)

It won't address all the places I can't afford to use anything other than a DSLR. AF100 is the best answer to the budget cinema problem- so far.

 

[J. P. Sendall]

Let's just say I don't think it will catch on.

Sarcy - been around for decades. It's a Brit thing so lost on Johnny foreigner, oops there I go using a Brit phrase again.

I have been shooting with Zeiss Contax lenses and some of them have a lovely long throw and very little breathing for a still lens. Haven't used the zooms much though, only the Nikon 17-35mm. I must say if you can put up with the shortcomings of Zeiss still glass then you will get very decent images out of the 5D but not for cinema unless you got a ton of cash for post and then you might as well spend it on the cam and lens anyway.

 

[J. P. Sendall]

AF100 is the best answer to the budget cinema problem- so far.

Surely the Sony F3?

 

[Bryce O]

Surely the Sony F3?

eh. The Sony F3 isn't that exciting honestly. $13000 and it maxes out at 30fps in 1080p... it can't even over-crank like the Af-100. Boring...
The F3 took one step forward in image processing (with S-log and 10-bit), but two steps back with usefulness as an actual film-making tool. It'll be a nice tool for Sony elitists though.

Honestly, between the AF-100 and the F3, the GH2 looks like the most interesting camera. It supposedly has the image quality of the AF-100 with even better ISO performance and noise reduction. The only thing it's lacking is color monitors, XLR inputs, ect... Which is fine with me. Audio should be done separately anyways. DVXuser is fooling allot of little lemmings over on those boards with the talk of "pro audio" on the AF-100. Pro audio is a dedicated sound guy, not 44.1khz 16-bit capture with crappy pre-amps shoved next to camera electronics.

 

[Philippe Van Horebeek]

I use a Leica R Zoom on my 5d2. That lens makes damn pretty pictures and honestly the movements on it are way smoother than my RPZ 17-50.

Hey Christopher, what kind of adapter do you use ? And can you focus it perfectly to infinity ?

 

[Leo Ticheli]

Honestly, between the AF-100 and the F3, the GH2 looks like the most interesting camera. It supposedly has the image quality of the AF-100 with even better ISO performance and noise reduction. The only thing it's lacking is color monitors, XLR inputs, ect... Which is fine with me. Audio should be done separately anyways. DVXuser is fooling allot of little lemmings over on those boards with the talk of "pro audio" on the AF-100. Pro audio is a dedicated sound guy, not 44.1khz 16-bit capture with crappy pre-amps shoved next to camera electronics.

At the risk of censure for a non-Red comment, the supposition that the motion picture image quality of the GH2 is somehow the equal or superior to the AF100 is fantasy. Not to mention that to properly equip a DSLR for motion picture work requires quite an investment in accessories and it's still a kludge.

Wishful thinking is not reality.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

indication...

indication...

At the risk of censure for a non-Red comment, the supposition that the motion picture image quality of the GH2 is somehow the equal or superior to the AF100 is fantasy. Not to mention that to properly equip a DSLR for motion picture work requires quite an investment in accessories and it's still a kludge.

Wishful thinking is not reality.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

If this forum is any indication where things are going with indie/low budget aquisition the GH2 is much closer to modular concept than a "pony tail" viewfinder, flimsy lens mount with a $4K premium on it.
I agree that video quality should be better with 1080p optimized OLFP however......:confused5: