Scarlet S35 is now...

[Leo Sardello]

Another thing that gets us into trouble is talking as we think here on reduser. It doesn't matter how many times we say "things are subject to change, count on it"... people remember the numbers and think they were "promised". The sour posts continually remind me to re-think our communication philosophy.

Jim

The new ideas we have going forward won't be discussed until we are very close to releasing them.

Jim

Jim

This makes me kind of sad. I really enjoyed watching the process and on some very small level feeling like I even participated to a tiny degree. I was hoping RED’s extraordinarily unique open development and communication program would continue after the release of this generation of cameras, at which point many of the naysayers would return to the woodwork.

Or did I just read too much into it?

 

[Jannard]

This makes me kind of sad. I really enjoyed watching the process and on some very small level feeling like I even participated to a tiny degree. I was hoping RED’s extraordinarily unique open development and communication program would continue after the release of this generation of cameras, at which point many of the naysayers would return to the woodwork.

Or did I just read too much into it?

As I said in a very recent post... we will discuss the road map when we are 6 months from release. We have telegraphed what we are doing to competitors and won't do that anymore.

Jim

 

[Lee Fingersh]

The limited frame rate and data rate S35 Scarlet has become the limited frame rate and data rate S35 EPIC-S. We are still in development of lots of things discussed in the past, but package changes are likely. Jim

I think I understand. From the prior discussion I was thinking that EPIC-S would end up priced and spec'd far closer to EPIC-X than to Scarlet S35. Now, if I'm understanding, there will be some price increases associated with some spec improvements (i.e. HDRx) but that the base (say, "brain-only" or whatever) will still be in the same general range as the Scarlet was intended to be, and that some package changes will also included.

Perhaps I'm among the first to be duped by the relatively-close naming into thinking that resulted in relatively close specifications? Like I said, I'm not following quite as closely as many of the others here, but I think I've read all of your recent posts.

 

[Leo Sardello]

As I said in a very recent post... we will discuss the road map when we are 6 months from release. We have telegraphed what we are doing to competitors and won't do that anymore.

Jim

I missed that. Gotcha. That seems totally reasonable.

 

[Emanuel A.]

As I said in a very recent post... we will discuss the road map when we are 6 months from release. We have telegraphed what we are doing to competitors and won't do that anymore.

Jim

On the other hand, knowing in advance what your intentions are, it can be important for RED business and customers.

We can even try to avoid to think in other manufacturer's offer when we know our supplier (RED) is planning to release this or that product to meet our needs or best expectations.

Just my two cents,

E.

 

[Emanuel A.]

PS

PS

On the other hand, knowing in advance what your intentions are, it can be important for RED business and customers.

We can even try to avoid to think in other manufacturer's offer when we know our supplier (RED) is planning to release this or that product to meet our needs or best expectations.

That's what we've actually been doing.

 

[D Fuller]

We thought we were giving out the info 6 months before release... :-(

Jim

LOL! That's genuinely funny in retrospect. God, I love your candor, Jim.

I can't imagine how hard it has been to preside over this process -- both the invention/engineering part and the noise from us, the crowd outside the door. Thanks for building the camera you could see, rather than one that a lot of people would settle for. There's way too much "settling for" in the world.

 

[Dane Brehm]

EPIC LT might be better

 

[Emanuel A.]

I can't imagine how hard it has been to preside over this process -- both the invention/engineering part and the noise from us, the crowd outside the door. Thanks for building the camera you could see, rather than one that a lot of people would settle for. There's way too much "settling for" in the world.

Pretty words indeed, to share for anyone in good faith here, I think.

Do not forget a tango is for two, though. There's no soup for free, in both ways anyway.

 

[Joseph Hutson]

The sour posts continually remind me to re-think our communication philosophy.

Jim

Which is what they want you to do. Don't give in...

 

[Mike Yonts]

Just because it hasn't been discussed so much lately--

Stage 3 is still going to happen for Red One owners (who aren't taking advantage of Stage 2) more or less as it was originally described, right?

 

[Jason Sinclair]

Consider this:

Close to 10,000 cameras sold. Before then 0 cameras. That is about a 10,000% increase in sales which would make Red the fastest growing Cinema camera company in the world.

If something isn't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Chad Clemans]

@Jannard, Team RED, Redusers, et al:

I suppose I'm guilty, among others, of being among those who watch the dialog ensue, only to find that my voice has already been stated by another, and as such, I refrain from chiming in with nothing new to add. Perhaps this leaves a skewed image of the popularity of any opinion on any given debate, and for that I apologize.

I read the first press release about RED, day of, and have followed up on nearly everything posted by a RED or Yellow username, as well as some of the other 'heavy hitters' who live here. Nevertheless I happen to be a 'Junior Member' since I post so little.

RED has graciously opened the way for a discussion, so as a belated beginning to my rolling the ball back, here are my current thoughts, kept mostly on topic:

I've noticed a difference in how close to the chest RED has kept things, since NAB 2010 or so, as a result of the backlash Redusers in particular have sent. I'm noticing an even more elevated hesitancy to disclose even now, on the boards, and in PM's. I appreciate those who 'tell it like it is,' as to their opinion, even without tact, but sometimes I expect it causes the doors to close a bit, and that is unfortunate, but a reasonable result. I suppose competitors need to be left in the dark as well, to some extent.

It is my understanding that Scarlet S35 was always meant to be like Epic (S35 and X) except for lower framerates and datarates, but since it was being built on a Scarlet platform, some features that were later happened upon were not able to see fruition due to limited processing power. Switching it over to an Epic platform and calling it Epic-S makes sense, both in name, and in the hope that it can have all of the features of Epic (S35 and X), and only lack for higher framerates and datarates, though I haven't heard that confirmed. I do, however, wish this was a perfect world where the [e]'X'[tra] processing power for higher framerates and datarates could be implemented with a backstacking module onto an Epic-S, but such is life.

Having the fixed and interchangeable 2/3" sensor models be the only Scarlets makes sense. As to its naming though, I agree with whomever proposed that they should be called 'Scarlet S16,' to rename it as such.

I'm under the impression that Epic-S, Epic X, Epic M, and Epic S35 (if this is what new customers will call theirs) can all go together in 3D rigs when the settings don't exceed the processing power of the lowliest in the pair; I hope that is so.

As to the price, I think RED wants to profit on these things and not just break-even, but I expect a lot of those profits to go into future features and products, so regardless of cost I support their aim for the professional market no matter the cost or perceived loyalty issues.

As an aside, I hope that sometime soon REDray can come out from behind the veil as I'm curious to know if the pro model can substitute for REDrocket, its breakout box, REDstation, and REDray consumer, as an all in one, but that's for another thread I suppose.

Thanks to all for your contributions!

 

[Julien Deka]

I remember when the Epic/Scarlet were first announced, about a FF sensor...

Is such a sensor size something still in the RED's mind? For both Epic AND Epic-S?

Some people are taking about FF35, and that confused me... When I'm talking about a Full Frame camera I'm thinking 24x36, like a 5D mark II...

Does anyone knows what's going on on that size?

I'm checking the Recon several times a day, but infos are speeding around there, and I may missed something...

Thanks to RED to bring the camera that we want on the market... Sometime, I'm shooting with my Epic and still can't believe how good the image is... Then I wake up...

 

[Justin O'Neill]

Some people are taking about FF35, and that confused me... When I'm talking about a Full Frame camera I'm thinking 24x36, like a 5D mark II...

When we talk about the FF35 we mean the coming 24x36 Monstro sensor. Jim has said it is still in the plans but don't expect to hear anything about it until it is closer to release. It will come after the Epics are shipping.

 

[Justin Paloma]

@Jannard, Team RED, Redusers, et al:

I suppose I'm guilty, among others, of being among those who watch the dialog ensue, only to find that my voice has already been stated by another, and as such, I refrain from chiming in with nothing new to add. Perhaps this leaves a skewed image of the popularity of any opinion on any given debate, and for that I apologize.

I read the first press release about RED, day of, and have followed up on nearly everything posted by a RED or Yellow username, as well as some of the other 'heavy hitters' who live here. Nevertheless I happen to be a 'Junior Member' since I post so little.

RED has graciously opened the way for a discussion, so as a belated beginning to my rolling the ball back, here are my current thoughts, kept mostly on topic:

I've noticed a difference in how close to the chest RED has kept things, since NAB 2010 or so, as a result of the backlash Redusers in particular have sent. I'm noticing an even more elevated hesitancy to disclose even now, on the boards, and in PM's. I appreciate those who 'tell it like it is,' as to their opinion, even without tact, but sometimes I expect it causes the doors to close a bit, and that is unfortunate, but a reasonable result. I suppose competitors need to be left in the dark as well, to some extent.

It is my understanding that Scarlet S35 was always meant to be like Epic (S35 and X) except for lower framerates and datarates, but since it was being built on a Scarlet platform, some features that were later happened upon were not able to see fruition due to limited processing power. Switching it over to an Epic platform and calling it Epic-S makes sense, both in name, and in the hope that it can have all of the features of Epic (S35 and X), and only lack for higher framerates and datarates, though I haven't heard that confirmed. I do, however, wish this was a perfect world where the [e]'X'[tra] processing power for higher framerates and datarates could be implemented with a backstacking module onto an Epic-S, but such is life.

Having the fixed and interchangeable 2/3" sensor models be the only Scarlets makes sense. As to its naming though, I agree with whomever proposed that they should be called 'Scarlet S16,' to rename it as such.

I'm under the impression that Epic-S, Epic X, Epic M, and Epic S35 (if this is what new customers will call theirs) can all go together in 3D rigs when the settings don't exceed the processing power of the lowliest in the pair; I hope that is so.

As to the price, I think RED wants to profit on these things and not just break-even, but I expect a lot of those profits to go into future features and products, so regardless of cost I support their aim for the professional market no matter the cost or perceived loyalty issues.

As an aside, I hope that sometime soon REDray can come out from behind the veil as I'm curious to know if the pro model can substitute for REDrocket, its breakout box, REDstation, and REDray consumer, as an all in one, but that's for another thread I suppose.

Thanks to all for your contributions!

Thanks for the thoughtful post, my fellow "longtime reader, first time poster."

 

[Rick Burnett]

I like:

Epic-S (Standard/Scarlet)
Epic-E (Enhanced/Epic)
Epic-X (Xtreme/Xtra)

That way you can write

"Epic comes in three flavors; S,E,X, choose your passion!"

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelHalsell
Once the complete Epic line has been announced and production ramps up, will
1) the R1-MX continue to be available?

"Why would anyone buy it?"

Reply: Because maybe the Epic-S or Light or whatever won't shoot or won't record 4K. Also, because an R1 MX will still be a phenomenal camera, as it is today.

 

[RivaiC]

Rob, are you sure ? Jim says the only difference is data rate and frame rate, he doesn't mentioned anything about resolution.

 

[Leo Sardello]

Reply: Because maybe the Epic-S or Light or whatever won't shoot or won't record 4K. Also, because an R1 MX will still be a phenomenal camera, as it is today.

Woh there. What’s leading you down that line of thought? EPIC-S should be 5k until/unless they ever say otherwise. It is the same chip as EPIC with less horsepower for frame rates and data, they’ve always said that. They continue to say that. While RED’s new website doesn’t reflect the name change yet I will quote it:

“…Scarlet S35, which is basically a scaled down version of EPIC, offering the same APS sized S35 5K sensor that is in the higher end camera. While EPIC boasts faster data streams and faster frame rates, Scarlet S35 will have the resolution, dynamic range, look and feel of EPIC…”

Nothing that has recently been said suggests any of that has changed. Just because Jim says the features have changed doesn’t mean it looses resolution, RED has continually proven the opposite by only ADDING features, not taking them away.