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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Aww... the $4750 was pushing it already...

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Robert Jackson said:
I can tell you without ever touching a line-skipping camera that uses AVCHD that it's not worth owning for a professional.
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If the AF100 line skips but creates a great image with little moire, aliasing or rolling shutter, and outputs to 100mbps 4:4:2 via HD-SDI, your argument is fairly null.

You will sit and run some AF100 tests and say "look I was right, there is a little bit of aliasing there" while many people will be wowing clients and creating stunning work.

People like you... who assume they know everything, are just people who get left behind in this game.

**** me, I don't even want an AF100, I just hate elitism.
 
Jim Retar said:
If the AF100 line skips but creates a great image with little moire, aliasing or rolling shutter, and outputs to 100mbps 4:4:2 via HD-SDI, your argument is fairly null.
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Spoken like a guy who's sure a Yugo is capable of winning the Grand Prix. "Hey, until we race it there's no way to know!"

Jim Retar said:
People like you... who assume they know everything, are just people who get left behind in this game.

**** me, I don't even want an AF100, I just hate elitism.
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"Elitism" is a good thing. That's who we're supposed to be. We're supposed to be the "elite" of the field of capturing moving images. And part of that "elitism" should come from our understanding of how the equipment works.

"People like me" do the job with equipment that's well-suited to doing the job. It doesn't have to be expensive equipment. I'm not suggesting that you all go out and buy an Alexa. But it should be something that isn't hobbled by terrible design criteria.

And saying that idiots won't notice isn't exactly a stunning endorsement.:emote_whack:
 
Robert Jackson said:
And saying that idiots won't notice isn't exactly a stunning endorsement.
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Saying that your clients are idiots is something of an endorsement about who you do work for... my clients tend to be very technically aware.

Anyway, this thread is about a guy who can no longer afford RED, is probably a film maker and probably will be wanting a $5k alternative. Maybe, just maybe he can sacrifice a bit of IQ for creative freedom.

$5k = compromise..... pick and choose which ones you want to make.... don't knock people because they are not the compromises you would choose though. That is when elitism is bad.

If you would recommend a 1/3" 4:4:2 with 6 stops of DR camera over a 4/3" 4:4:0 with 10.5 stops of DR... to create an interesting feature, then fair enough.... I wouldn't.
 
Jim Retar said:
Saying that your clients are idiots is something of an endorsement about who you do work for... my clients tend to be very technically aware.
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And yet ignorant/blind enough not to notice that you've delivered artifact-laden material shot on consumer-level crap?

Jim Retar said:
If you would recommend a 1/3" 4:4:2 with 6 stops of DR camera over a 4/3" 4:4:0 with 10.5 stops of DR... to create an interesting feature, then fair enough.... I wouldn't.
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Panasonic's internal 20-bit processing yields a lot better control of highlights and shadows than most 1/3" cameras I've tried. If you've seen something claiming it can only manage 6 stops of DR I'd like to see it, but in the time I spent trying one out it seemed to do a remarkable job of holding highlights.

And there's another red herring, really. Internet fanboys, both in the DSLR and "Cinematography" camps, have this imagined sense that shooting "movies" is all about available-light photography. Nobody wants to actually go to the effort of lighting sets properly. The idea of taking contrast ratios into account is the stuff they openly mock. I took a camera operator job on a low-budget zombie shoot a few years back and when I got there in the morning and started walking around the set with my light meter I immediately got the attention and the scorn of the "DP" who wanted to assure me that it was a waste of time and the monitors would tell us all everything we needed to know. The desired product is a "magic box" to come in and allow them to shoot without thinking. Which is fine, but it's not cinematography.
 
Simon Zimmer said:
Yes, Santa, I see that.

:gun:

;)

Simon
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Heh...you know, man. For the kids. Sometimes they just need a jolt to get them on the right track. :thumbup1:

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As this got far off topic, I would like to say to the OP if he is still around that if he only has 5k to spend, not sure if that is the case or not, he should not get a af100. I prefer to purchase lower than my budget to allow for accessories and kitting the camera out, now this depends on what you already have. Though I have seen hvx's on sale for 1k with media batteries and charger, for that you could get a very decent camcorder, then go out and find a hackable GH-1 or pick up a 60D and you are set all for around 2.5k leaving you another 2.5k for acessories.

have a good one and fellas lets try and respect each others choices.... though this is a Red board so lets remember where we are as well.
 
Stephen Matthews said:
As this got far off topic, I would like to say to the OP if he is still around that if he only has 5k to spend, not sure if that is the case or not, he should not get a af100. I prefer to purchase lower than my budget to allow for accessories and kitting the camera out, now this depends on what you already have. Though I have seen hvx's on sale for 1k with media batteries and charger, for that you could get a very decent camcorder, then go out and find a hackable GH-1 or pick up a 60D and you are set all for around 2.5k leaving you another 2.5k for acessories.
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That's a very sensible suggestion and the HVX was a very useful little camera.

Stephen Matthews said:
have a good one and fellas lets try and respect each others choices.... though this is a Red board so lets remember where we are as well.
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Did you just suggest that we all be politically-correct about camera choices? So if someone comes in and suggests that a Flip UltraHD is perfect for production work we're supposed to say, "Brother, only you can determine what the output of a camera will look like."

Now I have to go club some baby seals just to get that smell out of the air...
 
Jim Retar said:
I don't remember once mentioning what I shoot on... you sir, are a prize f**king prick.

Sorry mods.
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Your comment was that despite "moire, aliasing or a little rolling shutter" that "many people" could present footage from an AF100 and find it "wowing clients and creating stunning work." My comment was a response to that. It made no assumptions about how you currently work. Heh... :iamwithstupid:

And while I am certainly a prick, none of the prizes I've won seem to have been in that particular category of competition. Although there's always hope for the future! :dita:
 
Simon Zimmer said:
Finally I agree with Santa! :thumbsup:
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Whew! Now I can finally sleep at night. :hat:

Now if all the other outraged strangers who don't like people who aren't agreeable all the time could just weigh in everything would be proceeding according to schedule...
 
It seems that you also can not read properly.

"If the AF100 line skips but creates a great image with little moire, aliasing or rolling shutter"

Notice the word "little"... ie, minimal, unnoticeable, very hard to spot unless you are pixel peeping....

The R1 can sometimes contain a little moire, aliasing and rolling shutter... if you really want to look for it. Is that also off your list of elite cameras???
 
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