Aww... the $4750 was pushing it already...

[Lawrence Bansbach]

Firstly, to clarify, every bit more you end up paying for the Scarlet, the better it will be. The scarlet as we now know it, although it costs double of what it did originally, is pretty much twice as good as it was. Just about every spec has been improved, from HDRx to a higher bitrate.

While, on balance, the final design will be better (especially with HDRx), it can't be said that virtually everything has been improved, since many of the original design's specs were never published (if indeed they ever existed). In some cases where the specs were published, the original, on paper, had the edge: higher burst rate (180 fps vs. 150), more CF slots (two vs. one in the current kit configuration), integrated HD-SDI (now available in an add-on module), and a larger LCD (4.8 inches vs. the kit's 2.8-inch LCD). You mentioned data rate. Unless that has increased with the HDRx announcement (it was specced in December 2009 at up to RC100), it's no higher than what was originally announced: "Up to 100 MB/sec REDCODE RAW and RGB recording to dual compact flash." Arguably some of this may seem trivial, but my point is that no one outside Red knows how good the original might have been, since it was never fully developed. It's history. But it's inaccurate to say the current design is superior in almost every way, because it some significant ways it isn't. However, in the most important way it is: it will, with any luck, someday exist. And, yes, the higher price does buy some exciting improvements, such as HDRx.

 

[Jim Retar]

With 16mm lenses, GH2 will have little or no DOF advantage over Scarlet anyway if you can't cover the full sensor and have to crop the image. You can always go for the Scarlet Cinema instead of the fixed. With the 14-150 kit lens GH2 will have no DOF advantage over fixed Scarlet either.

I think you miss my point... The GH2 can crop down to use a 1/2" inch section of the 4/3" sensor... giving a similar DOF to the 2/3" scarlet interchangable (but it will be out next month!!). You can get c-mount HDTV lenses that are very fast and cheap, yet still sharp enough for GH2 resolution.

He can gain valuable skills in 2/3" style shooting, 4/3"/s35 style shooting and start building a collection of lens and accessories that will extend over to Scarlet.

All for under $1500 I imagine (GH2, c-mount, and cheap HDTV lenses).

 

[Lee Saxon]

but these guys (sub $10k market) will move very fast when a threat actually surfaces. No one knows what is in the pipeline.

Not sure you're right. I don't think they "get it." The AF100 is the same old same old in a different body, except for the sensor being slightly larger.

 

[Noah Kadner]

Not sure you're right. I don't think they "get it." The AF100 is the same old same old in a different body, except for the sensor being slightly larger.

Don't be surprised when they sell a pile of those. If you think it's really same old you haven't actually seen one...

 

[David Rasberry]

Don't be surprised when they sell a pile of those. If you think it's really same old you haven't actually seen one...

Panasonic has a well established reputation in the low end indie/student film maker market. I am sure the AF-100 will be a very sucessful camera for them. It offers a lot for the money and I am sure the performance will be far superior to any of the HDSLR's.

As distinct from "filmmakers" in general, I think Scarlet will appeal more to budding cinematographers who are serious about their visual art and will ultimately be frustrated at the limitations of any long GOP codec video camera. It will also appeal more to those who are shooting specfically for theatrical format 1.85:1 or 2.40:1 release and have reasonable budgets to do so. For the web video guys the AF-100 will serve quite well for a while. But you will see even web streaming moving to higher resolutions and higher quality pretty quickly.

 

[Leo Ticheli]

The first delivery of AG-AF100s to the US will be 10,000 units.

I'm doing all I can to make sure one of them is mine.

Good shooting and best regards,
Leo

 

[Terry VerHaar]

The first delivery of AG-AF100s to the US will be 10,000 units.

I'm doing all I can to make sure one of them is mine.

Good shooting and best regards,
Leo

Because I am a nice guy, I am going to help you out by NOT buying one. :thumbsup:

 

[Noah Kadner]

As distinct from "filmmakers" in general, I think Scarlet will appeal more to budding cinematographers who are serious about their visual art and will ultimately be frustrated at the limitations of any long GOP codec video camera. It will also appeal more to those who are shooting specfically for theatrical format 1.85:1 or 2.40:1 release and have reasonable budgets to do so. For the web video guys the AF-100 will serve quite well for a while. But you will see even web streaming moving to higher resolutions and higher quality pretty quickly.

Scarlet may well raise the bar when it comes out but that will depend on what the market looks like by then. RED would benefit by stabilizing the goal posts and getting a 1.0 product out the door while there's still a viable market position for it. They can build from there. They've already ceded away the 3K for 3K market- which is a shame as that could have been their "iPod" in terms of mass-market commercialization.

What if- a year from now Scarlet still is in development and Canon answers the AF100 with a 5DM3 shooting HDR 4K RAW for $3,000. And by then Panasonic shows the "AF150" also shooting RAW and 3D. Think that's really an impossible scenario? The data points could be aligned to support that possibility... :Angel_anim:

Noah

 

[Stuart English]

Panasonic has a well established reputation in the low end indie/student film maker market. I am sure the AF-100 will be a very sucessful camera for them. It offers a lot for the money and I am sure the performance will be far superior to any of the HDSLR's.

As distinct from "filmmakers" in general, I think Scarlet will appeal more to budding cinematographers who are serious about their visual art and will ultimately be frustrated at the limitations of any long GOP codec video camera. It will also appeal more to those who are shooting specfically for theatrical format 1.85:1 or 2.40:1 release and have reasonable budgets to do so. For the web video guys the AF-100 will serve quite well for a while. But you will see even web streaming moving to higher resolutions and higher quality pretty quickly.

And don't underestimate the effect that even EasyHDR will have on shooting higher quality natural history, sports, music videos and reality shows which are the big applications for HD camera sales. The DSLR's and the AF-100 can generate shallow depth of field a little easier than 2/3 optics can, but the ability to capture great images under wildly fluctuating lighting conditions is a game changer.

 

[David Rasberry]

And don't underestimate the effect that even EasyHDR™ will have on shooting higher quality natural history, sports, music videos and reality shows which are the big applications for HD camera sales. The DSLR's and the AF-100 can generate shallow depth of field a little easier than 2/3 optics can, but the ability to capture great images under wildly fluctuating lighting conditions is a game changer.

Amen to that. The 16mm/2/3" sized format is popular for a lot of good reasons and I don't think its usefulness for a wide range of general production applications will diminish anytime soon.

 

[David Rasberry]

The first delivery of AG-AF100s to the US will be 10,000 units.

I'm doing all I can to make sure one of them is mine.

Good shooting and best regards,
Leo

Should be a great low end project camera eh Leo?

 

[Danny Lingan]

I've read that a general rule is that the 2/3 DOF is about 2 stops higher than the same in 35. With HDR protecting highlights, there should be a lot of situations where users can open up a couple stop to get that increased DOF if it is really needed.

Am I missing a problem here other than perhaps missing the sweet spot on a lot of lenses?

***Someone congratulate me! It's been an uphill climb but I have just now been be-knighted as a senior member.

 

[Elsie N]

The first delivery of AG-AF100s to the US will be 10,000 units.

I'm doing all I can to make sure one of them is mine.

Good shooting and best regards,
Leo

If I may paraphrase the Soup Nazi..."No Scarlet for you! One Year!

Heh, heh. Just messin' with you Leo. All in good fun.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

Scarlet may well raise the bar when it comes out but that will depend on what the market looks like by then. RED would benefit by stabilizing the goal posts and getting a 1.0 product out the door while there's still a viable market position for it. They can build from there. They've already ceded away the 3K for 3K market- which is a shame as that could have been their "iPod" in terms of mass-market commercialization.

What if- a year from now Scarlet still is in development and Canon answers the AF100 with a 5DM3 shooting HDR 4K RAW for $3,000. And by then Panasonic shows the "AF150" also shooting RAW and 3D. Think that's really an impossible scenario? The data points could be aligned to support that possibility... :Angel_anim:

Noah

this "Ipod" notion got me thinking..

Though this would really depend on how the situation would play out if red made their "Ipod" and how they dealt with future camera's but if they really went the apple route we would eventually see them abandoning or ignoring the pro market like apple has, and continuing to pump out a new product ever few months turning into the exact opposite of what the company was formed for in the first place.

Not knocking apple anymore than it has allowed itself to be, we all love their new innovations but just wish they still put the effort into their pro division like they used to, ah well at least we still have Red.

But I couldn't really predict how things would play out if Red decided to make a real attempt at this market, but this is just imagining if they went the apple route (which I don't think anyone was suggesting just thinking out loud here).

 

[Rick Burnett]

I look at it this way. Clearly the Scarlet's are going to push out in time again. Given they lost their manufacturer, they are adding additional ASIC's and boards, and we really don't know what other amazing stuff they find in Epic that they want to port down to Scarlet, we really have NO CLUE when to expect the Fixed, 2/3 Cinema or S35 AT ALL.

I'm not knocking RED for this. They clearly see a very turbulent market right now. They've got the Alexa at one end and the AF100 at the other kind of creating waves in their original target zones. I am glad they didn't do the opposite, try and keep in the prosumer market, and make Scarlet cheaper. I think they make the right move, because when I move out of the market I am in, I hope it lines up with their S35 release schedule. The specs so far are awesome.

I've already ordered an AF100. It's clear to me that given I have projects going on right now, and new projects starting in January that this is my only viable choice for what I like to shoot on. I've really enjoyed learning on my 7D and have done some great stuff, but I am ready to move on. I don't see ANY other cameras with an S35 relatively sized sensor between my 7D and the Scarlet S35, other than the AF100. It a step up in EVERY aspect except size. It's a win for me.

I'm just thankful that Panasonic is filling a gap for me.

Those who think it's just a repackaged DSLR need to REALLY go read about them. Initial tests by a multitude of people on the prototype saw 10.5 stops of DR, drastically reduced moire/aliasing, faster read/reset that one person with RED experience said was on par with the MX sensor currently, and less banding of noise issues (I don't use a GH1 so I am not sure what that is). In addition, it will do 1080p60 which none of the DSLRs can do. It has all kinds of features for monitoring that are great, zebras, waveforms, histograms, etc. I'd post the whole list of features, but I think you are capable of doing it yourself

 

[Jim Retar]

For the web video guys the AF-100 will serve quite well for a while. But you will see even web streaming moving to higher resolutions and higher quality pretty quickly.

Expect main stream TV to be using these for many, many applications. To mention it as just a high end web video camera is either being blinded by RED specs or naive to every other prosumer (oh, the dirty word) camera that has ever been launch by Panny and shot wonderful images for it's time. Large sensor, 1080/60p, good codec and (from a good source) very similar, if not better DR than R1-M.... it's a good camera.

By Jan 2011, you will be seeing some great stuff from this camera, on prime time tv, in numerous different areas of the industry.

I've already said that I am not buying one, so have no agenda here... I just think this post was crazy.

 

[Leo Ticheli]

Should be a great low end project camera eh Leo?

Yes, and perhaps a good camera for a "high-end" project, assuming one has the talent to do a good job. You know, all that lighting, blocking, directing, and movie stuff that is far, far more important than the resolution of the camera.

Furthermore, I treat all my jobs as if they are "high-end" regardless of the budget my clients have to bear on the project.

I might also remind you that beautiful work has been done on far lesser cameras and some meretricious junk has been shot on Red.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

 

[David Rasberry]

Expect main stream TV to be using these for many, many applications. To mention it as just a high end web video camera is either being blinded by RED specs or naive to every other prosumer (oh, the dirty word) camera that has ever been launch by Panny and shot wonderful images for it's time. Large sensor, 1080/60p, good codec and (from a good source) very similar, if not better DR than R1-M.... it's a good camera.

By Jan 2011, you will be seeing some great stuff from this camera, on prime time tv, in numerous different areas of the industry.

I've already said that I am not buying one, so have no agenda here... I just think this post was crazy.

You may be right, but availability of suitable lenses may make it impractical for a lot of "mainstream" TV applications compared to a 2/3" camera and many outlets have not been enthralled with AVC codec quality either.
I love the promise of the 4/3 format, but it is still in its infancy and I am not sure it has much advantage over 2/3" for general production.

 

[Noah Kadner]

You may be right, but availability of suitable lenses may make it impractical for a lot of "mainstream" TV applications compared to a 2/3" camera

Here's one answer:

http://www.novoflex.com/en/products/adapters/adapters-for-microfourthirds-cameras/

Not saying the AF100 is the end all camera- no camera is. But the M 4/3 mount is infinitely adaptable all the way up to PL. It will not be hurting for lens choice.

Noah

 

[David Rasberry]

Yes, and perhaps a good camera for a "high-end" project, assuming one has the talent to do a good job. You know, all that lighting, blocking, directing, and movie stuff that is far, far more important than the resolution of the camera.

Furthermore, I treat all my jobs as if they are "high-end" regardless of the budget my clients have to bear on the project.

I might also remind you that beautiful work has been done on far lesser cameras and some meretricious junk has been shot on Red.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

Yeah, I really meant low budget projects. No implications as to quality per se.
You've mentioned before that you shoot some of your RED projects at 2k.
The AF-100 should handily outperform the RED ONE M at that resolution in many ways.
Should be a very handy and efficient video production camera for the money.