HDRx recording options

[Jim Retar]

Here is a question that I really hope someone from RED answers.

Will HDRx™™™ on Scarlet require SSD?

If I am paying an extra $1000 for HDRx™™™, I need to know if I also have to budget $4000+ for the storage media to use it.

 

[Anthony Cote]

this is great information to know. I was one of the people who voted no for HDRx and am sorta disappointed RED went in this direction. Sure I will still get the Scarlet, I understand what it and HDRx will do to the industry, but now it is out of my price frame. Then again my price frame was set expecting it would be out by January.

But if we are talking ditching CF cards all together, its becoming more and more unlikely I will be getting a Scarlet. The side SSD module is amazing and I wish I could afford it

 

[Elsie N]

Really would be nice if they made the SSD module the default option.

 

[Steve Wake]

C'mon Jim. Make our day. Tell us the extra $1K includes a side SSD.

Think of all the $ you'll save by canceling all future CF options and having just one medium to support/develop/sell.

Never hurts to ask.

 

[Subhadip Sen]

Something to consider for 2/3". The Epic HDRx footage was REDCODE 50, and Jim mentioned the "recommended" being REDCODE 55. To 3K (assuming the $1k also adds 16-bit REDCODE), this translates to about REDCODE 21 (If its 12-bit, then even lesser). Even if you are capturing two streams for post MNMB, it is 42 MB/s, well within the capabilities of CF (and incidentally, the same bitrate as REDCODE 42 of the RED One). For most of us, these bitrates will be sufficient.

Of course, if you intend to do 120fps/extreme detail/motion/visual effects work, and would want as close to lossless as possible, the SSD module is an option. But I don't see it being a necessity.

As for S35 5K, SSD will no doubt be a popular choice.

 

[Bruce Allen]

C'mon Jim. Make our day. Tell us the extra $1K includes a side SSD.

Think of all the $ you'll save by canceling all future CF options and having just one medium to support/develop/sell.

Never hurts to ask.

Not just CF - cancel RED-RAM and RED-DRIVE too.

Sandforce-based (eg FAAAAAST) Onyx 2 SSDs just released are UNDER $2 per GB. 240gb for $440 and 120gb for $190!!

270MB/s read, 265MB/s write - probably plenty to handle Scarlet's max rate of REDCODE 100.

Grab that 120gb, certify it, put it in a RED case and sell it for $500. Or the 240gb for $800. RED would make a nice profit. Just like selling tape stock was often the most profitable part of a post house

I can't see too many people complaining about their CF cards or hard drives not working if they have a cheap SSD option.

And by the time Scarlet comes out, they'll be even cheaper and faster.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Jim Retar]

Something to consider for 2/3". The Epic HDRx™™™ footage was REDCODE 50, and Jim mentioned the "recommended" being REDCODE 55. To 3K (assuming the $1k also adds 16-bit REDCODE), this translates to about REDCODE 21 (If its 12-bit, then even lesser). Even if you are capturing two streams for post MNMB, it is 42 MB/s, well within the capabilities of CF (and incidentally, the same bitrate as REDCODE 42 of the RED One). For most of us, these bitrates will be sufficient.

Surely 16bit adds to the bitrate?

Also, I thought I heard someone from RED mention that RC 50 (for example) doesn't mean 50mbits/p/s

Anyway, thanks for the help but I really hope a RED staff member answers this one to clear things up.

 

[J Davis]

Here is a question that I really hope someone from RED answers.

Will HDRx™™™™ on Scarlet require SSD?

If I am paying an extra $1000 for HDRx™™™™, I need to know if I also have to budget $4000+ for the storage media to use it.

Good point.
But as I just learned on the magic motion thread. Easy HDRx is when it is done in camera (or so I was told) which I would hope would mean no increase in file size. (?!?)

 

[Steve Wake]

But in the announcement about including HDR in Scarlet, Jim only mentioned HDRx™. Which is why several of us have asked for clarification. It's not clear that EasyHDR™ is included.

 

[Steve Wake]

And in case you're not sure what the difference is:

I need to clarify one thing...

EasyHDR™ happens in camera and there is NO hit to the data rate. Files come out of the camera the same size as normal mode. You are, however, constrained to 5K at 48fps. The HDR is "baked in" to the file so there is no post option for combining frames.

HDRx™ is recorded as two streams, so data rate is twice normal mode. Combining them happens in post and there are a wide variety of options for doing this. Again, you are limited to shooting maximum 5K at 48fps.

Jim

I think this was the first post where EasyHDR appeared with the trademark, thus distinguishing it from HDRx. And regarding frame rates, obviously he was talking about Epic here.

 

[Aaron Newsome]

Not just CF - cancel RED-RAM and RED-DRIVE too.

Sandforce-based (eg FAAAAAST) Onyx 2 SSDs just released are UNDER $2 per GB. 240gb for $440 and 120gb for $190!!

270MB/s read, 265MB/s write - probably plenty to handle Scarlet's max rate of REDCODE 100.

Grab that 120gb, certify it, put it in a RED case and sell it for $500. Or the 240gb for $800. RED would make a nice profit. Just like selling tape stock was often the most profitable part of a

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Bruce, I've mentioned before that these Sandforce based SSD will write at nowhere near their stated spec, when writing compressed video data. I wouldn't be surprised if that very drive you reference, could not even maintain a 50 MB/s video stream of data. In my own testing, none of the cheap SSD options are really able to maintain the sustained rate for video data. Unfortunately, only the more expensive SSD can really do that.

All of these SSD discussions are really moot anyway though, since the only SSD you can use will be a RED branded one anyway. It's not like you'll have a choice of which brand you use.

 

[Jim Retar]

Still no answers from RED?

I have asked several times about the limitations of CF regarding Scarlet features and it always seems to fall on deaf ears.

We are talking about a potential $4000+ price hike to use HDRx™ and higher frame rates (with SSD).... does no one else think this is one of the most important questions to be asking?

 

[Tim Hole]

It is the natural trend for RED to answer questions when they are prepared to do so - when I say 'prepared' I don't mean 'wanting to', I mean that are in position to give us the information. I always assume they are watching the posts, are aware of all the questions being asked and will answer them when they can.

It would be extremely fantastic if they for-go the CF on the side of the scarlet and have an SSD in its place, however this has to be a viable option for RED. Or even the option to do so via ordering a fixed kit for example. I would happily pay an extra $500 for a side SSD in a place of the CF side module. Then all we would need to buy is the mags and a reader. Did Jared confirm before that a reader was needed, I forget... There is no way to offload from the camera? I would assume for fast transfer it will have to be hooked up a RED STATION.