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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Extra $1000 (more or less) for HDRx on Scarlet?

Extra $1000 (more or less) for HDRx on Scarlet?

  • Total voters
    486
Scarlet is NOT Epic.

It will never be Epic.
If you want an Epic, buy an Epic.
 
Matt Steinauer said:
If the Scarlet S35 can only do 30 fps then it might only be capable of 15fps HDRx™. And if they do enable it with higher frame rates, well, they might as well just call it an EPIC.
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Good point. Many people are assuming that getting the HDRx into the S35 is fait accompli. When in fact, according to specs, a big re-design would be needed: new board stack, big delay, etc. This would probably push up the cost of the Scarlet S35 to the near $10K level if not substantially above it. In fact, the addition of HDRx™ alone represents an across the board $1K+ price increase among Scarlet models.

As for calling it an Epic, that idea kinda begs the question: Why not lower Epic S35's price point and abandon the Scarlet S35 altogether? Just seems logical given the willingness to give all the camera models essentially the same bells and whistles.
 
I wonder if, after a search for another high-volume manufacturing partner for Scarlet fixed, the bids from the new partner factory are exceeding the original estimates, thus putting pressure on Red to raise the price or redesign the product anyway.

In such a scenario-- i.e., In order to hit the price, Scarlet fixed is facing a component re-alignment and re-design anyway, so another delay is coming no matter what-- then it makes sense to add HDRx™ to it. To value-engineer the existing product could take quite awhile-- my guess is at least four months.

For Jim to even put forth the idea that HDRx could be included in Scarlet tells me that Scarlet is not even close to starting its way down the assembly line.

However, in such a scenario, it would make sense to re-evaluate the entire Scarlet line in order to better compete in the market.
 
Regardless of what the call is, I take this as a bad sign for scarlet development. I don't anticipate the cameras being very close to release if the possibility of adding major internal features is still an option.

While RED's tendency to strive for the absolute best is a good thing, I wonder if it'll end up precluding any real-world Scarlet release. Let's hope not...
 
While it sounds like adding the HDR will cause a delay, its perhaps worthwhile to take into account that it does not necessarily have to be so, and in fact, it might be the other way around.

In production it is always a competitive edge if one is able to exploit the same components in different products. In this sense, if Scarlet shares a lot of hardware components with Epic, in principle it is possible that this speeded up the production of Scarlet. The more can be produced in one token, all the better.

I have no idea whatsoever, what is really the case, but tend to rely on Jim and the team that they know what they are doing.
 
I see some consensus both here and at Scarletuser that at least the first gen Scarlet fixed should be released as soon as possible at as low a price as possible for the low budget crowd sans HDR. For low end indie market credibility this camera needs to hit the streets in the same time frame as the AF100, more delays will add to the disillusionment.

But as the small form factor robotic B cam for hollywood productions, it should match as closely with Epic as possible. Definitely a difficult decision to make for Red.
Maybe the interchangeable Scarlet Cinema should serve as the 2/3" development platform for HDRx technology. That might be a reasonable compromise. But I think eventually it needs to migrate to a version of the fixed too.
 
David Rasberry said:
I see some consensus both here and at Scarletuser that at least the first gen Scarlet fixed should be released as soon as possible at as low a price as possible for the low budget crowd sans HDR. For low end indie market credibility this camera needs to hit the streets in the same time frame as the AF100, more delays will add to the disillusionment.

But as the small form factor robotic B cam for hollywood productions, it should match as closely with Epic as possible. Definitely a difficult decision to make for Red.
Maybe the interchangeable Scarlet Cinema should serve as the 2/3" development platform for HDRx™ technology. That might be a reasonable compromise. But I think eventually it needs to migrate to a version of the fixed too.
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That pretty much sums it up. There needs to be a non-HDR Scarlet 2/3" Fixed on the market as soon as possible, and for no more than $4,750. A HDRx version for under $6,000 can follow later as there seems to be ample demand for it.
 
Subhadip Sen said:
That pretty much sums it up. There needs to be a non-HDR Scarlet 2/3" Fixed on the market as soon as possible, and for no more than $4,750. A HDRx™™™ version for under $6,000 can follow later as there seems to be ample demand for it.
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Pure speculation since any number of engineering constraints are unknown ,but..

Could the fixtures for a future upgrade path be enabled in the first batches of non HDR`d Scarlets,Owners could then `HDR up` using the same Red infrastructure that now services R1 upgrades to MX ?

This could allow the choice for all future Scarlet owners to have an `HDR enable` option at Purchase,with the knowledge of an upgrade being possible when funds or need arises.

Lots of cake and everone could eat it.
 
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Subhadip Sen said:
That pretty much sums it up. There needs to be a non-HDR Scarlet 2/3" Fixed on the market as soon as possible, and for no more than $4,750. A HDRx™ version for under $6,000 can follow later as there seems to be ample demand for it.
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Absolutely. There's no reason for RED to halt development of HDR on the scarlet, but if it delays its release yet again it's gotta wait.

From my standpoint outside of the development process, it appears RED is unwilling to settle. If they know something's possible, it seems they'll do anything (notably add development time) to include it. It's great to be surprised with new features (and some of them have been jaw-dropping), but at some point the product has to be released. I understand the ideology of "obsolescence obsolete", but realistically it is impossible to engineer a product with every feature one will ever need.

If it shoots in the lab and meets some form of your expectations (even if they're only yesterday's), put the product to market. Continue developing a Scarlet II brain with HDR, or even leave HDR to the Epic. But please don't delay the Scarlet beyond the two years it's been for the illusion of a sempiternal product.
 
I'd say leave the 2/3" Scarlet without it, but include it on the s35 Scarlet.
I'd certainly pay more for the option to go HDR.
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
...

I have no idea whatsoever, what is really the case, but tend to rely on Jim and the team that they know what they are doing.
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Amen to this. The amount of false precision we have here with the "in-depth analysis" and armchair quarterbacking is beyond belief. People are developing entire marketing scenarios and product management strategies for the full line of RED cameras (which some people have expanding to 12 or so), based on very few facts, a whole lot of assumptions and a jumbo dollop of personal theory.

Jim and his team have done all right so far. Let's just let them do their jobs.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Keep in mind that in regards to the fixed lens Scarlet, the term obsolescence obsolete, will not apply as much when compared with cameras that are more modular.

Jay
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I am curious as to why you say that. The only difference is the built in lens which, by all reports, is pretty darn competent. Otherwise, all other modularity applies. AFAIK, lenses are really the least likely thing to get obsolete.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Keep in mind that in regards to the fixed lens Scarlet, the term obsolescence obsolete, will not apply as much when compared with cameras that are more modular.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't worry too much about it. As Scarlet fixed and Cinema don't really fit in with Red's "4K is the future," in a sense they're obsolescent already, even before they're released.
 
Danny Lingan said:
And wisely change your name here, sage one: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=32432
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Cheers Danny, much appreciated.


Someone please correct me I'm wrong but in regards to the 2/3" Scarlets, seeing as they can do 120fps already (AFAWK), I would have thought that the bottlekneck for HDRx™ to be incorporated would be in the processor's ability to combine the two streams in real time. Not in the 2/3" sensor?

Would it be possible to take multiple read-offs and record both streams but not be able to actually monitor in HDRx™?

Seeing only one stream at a time and being able to switch between the two to check for correct exposure would be enough as a monitoring solution IMO. Then it just would be a case of actually putting it into HDRx™ in post.

If it is a sensor limitation then it's obviously not that simple.
 
David Rasberry said:
For low end indie market credibility this camera needs to hit the streets in the same time frame as the AF100, more delays will add to the disillusionment.
Click to expand...

To me it seems obvious the AF100 will hit the streets way, way before Scarlet 2/3 fixed does.

I would also bet on seeing Canon's 5D mkIII and Sony's answer to the AF100 before Scarlet too.
 
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