More new color science...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I've got some secret sauce that's a real game changer...



...OK, no, not really. I just hate both those current buzzwords. Two terms that are destined to join "paradigm shift" and "quantum leap" in the depths of totally over-used lameness.

 

[C. Jagan Mohan]

Sooner... works with all RED footage.

Jim

When?

 

[Erik Greensmith]

Wow. This conversation between M Most, Deanan and Brook has been the most exciting and informative thing I've read all week.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Agreed. Chicken and egg situation though as more DI hardware/sw needs to move up to half float. So far Nucoda is the closest and there's already one feature being graded in half float (although not ACES I believe). We can be ready to roll it out as soon as it starts to solidify.

Deanan,

SCRATCH has had the option to process in half-float for more than a year now. It's actually a user-selectable switch whether to process in half- or full-. We put that switch in specifically to deal with 16-bit sources, so a user can choose full-float if necessary. We've had several features processed fully in half-float, including a few that were at Cannes this past year... ; )

Lucas

 

[Eisen Feuer]

Hi

These are 2 versions of the same frame, original m sensor. Is there a way to hold this window details in one cc, without luma key?

Can't you salvage it with curves?

I could not do it without penalty to the quality of the interior, but it may be possible.

Just remember that Cine-X's curves are not the only ones put there. Sometimes it's necessary to kill the curvyness of curves and really make them kink, which is basically emulating the sort of exactness you'd be doing with a Luma Key anyway.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Deanan,

SCRATCH has had the option to process in half-float for more than a year now. It's actually a user-selectable switch whether to process in half- or full-. We put that switch in specifically to deal with 16-bit sources, so a user can choose full-float if necessary. We've had several features processed fully in half-float, including a few that were at Cannes this past year... ; )

Lucas

Float is nice.

 

[Deanan]

Deanan,

SCRATCH has had the option to process in half-float for more than a year now. It's actually a user-selectable switch whether to process in half- or full-. We put that switch in specifically to deal with 16-bit sources, so a user can choose full-float if necessary. We've had several features processed fully in half-float, including a few that were at Cannes this past year... ; )

Lucas

You do that from EXR files in realtime?

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Every now and again I leave the cold north and travel to facilities that use the RED cameras. I try to really listen when I meet these people, and RLF, RG2 & RC2 are a direct result of the conversations I have had, along with the work we've put into the EXR export in RC-X.

The combination of REDLogFilm and EXR export works great for anything that goes through a combined DI / VFX workflow.

In addition, these are extra features, rather than replacements, so they in no-way invalidate or complicate existing workflows or projects in production.

Graeme

 

[M Most]

Is Baselight ready?

Yes. In fact, much of the testing of the system has been and is being done on Baselight (hint: Lou Levinson is chair of the ASC tech committee's DI subcomittee - way too many committees over there...).

As I'm sure you and Graeme realize, I did not intend to demean the work you guys have done and continue to do to improve the product. Red has created a number of new and unique situations for our industry, one of which is actually an outgrowth of this very forum in that when anything is even mentioned, let alone actually introduced, word of mouth is such that too many people immediately assume that it's finished, tested, widely available, and everyone is using it, even when that's just not the case. Hence my bemoaning the sudden appearance of new stuff that the third parties haven't had a chance to integrate yet. When everyone is on the same page, all of these things work very, very well. In fact, on "The Gates," I was able to coordinate with Stargate (the VFX supplier on that show) as to how to transcode the r3d files using the same settings I was using for color grading (in that case, camera metadata but with the gamma changed to Rec709 - not an uncommon approach for television material). As a result, I was generally able to apply my original color grade from the plate to the VFX shot I would get back from them and get an essentially identical result. When everyone is on the same page, it all works. The problem is that this isn't always the case, and not always because of a lack of communication, but more because not all of the programs being used have all of the most recent choices (case in point: Monkey Extract), or because production dove headlong into something that was not yet widely available in post (although as we've mentioned here before, you guys have been very good about helping out when that's been the case).

So I guess what I'm saying is that I appreciate the constant striving for improvement, it's just a bit frustrating sometimes that the individual users seem to get things either simultaneously with or even earlier than the third party vendors, which leads to a case of some "haves" while others remain "have nots". It's not really anyone's fault, but it does sometimes make things difficult on a long from project like a television series.

That's enough. I'm going to shut up and drink some coffee now.

 

[M Most]

Wow. This conversation between M Most, Deanan and Brook has been the most exciting and informative thing I've read all week.

I'm glad you realize it's a conversation, not a debate or argument of any sort. Deanan, Brook, and I know each other, and there's a good deal of three way mutual respect there. The three of us (four if you include Graeme) all do different jobs and thus have different perspectives and needs. In the end we all collaborate to create a final result that is hopefully the best it can be. Deanan and Graeme have been very instrumental in helping out whenever problems have arisen or to answer questions both publicly and privately, and Brook was very instrumental in setting up a workflow with us to better communicate the DPs visual intent through the post process. I like and respect them all, and any comments made here or elsewhere - certainly by me - are done in that spirit.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

You do that from EXR files in realtime?

Uncompressed EXR, yes. If it's compressed, the compression engine is the gating factor.

Lucas

 

[RivaiC]

I think if the 3rd party vendor is late implementing the latest color science from RED and you still need that look, you have no choice but transcoding it to something else, like EXR or TIFF half float with the color and gamma space burn in, at least you are getting your initial look for the workaround.