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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Extra $1000 (more or less) for HDRx on Scarlet?

Extra $1000 (more or less) for HDRx on Scarlet?

  • Total voters
    486
Remember guys Jim asked that this thread be set up to find out what people think.

I agree with Jeff adding HDR to the Fixed and 2/3 Scarlet would be amazing; couple this with a SSD option as mentioned a few posts back would be a real clever move.

HDR + SSDrive + module and 1.8" SSD reader

Imagine 18 stops DR, Auto Focus, Tracking, Red Remote, not to mention an SSD module that can shoot for 2 1/2 + hours of 3K.
More than enough time for most Eng Work, Concerts, Documentary and Drama work. Finally pop it into your 1.8" SSD Reader for offload to you Macbook Pro. (Game over) Ray Frisby
Click to expand...

If it was priced competitively then Red could corner the complete sub 10K market.
There is no reason they could not also offer the regular Fixed Scarlet for those who want it.
 
I would say no if it delays the release at all. They can build it into the next version. The Scarlets have enough dynamic range already for normal situations.

Scarlet should be cheap and revolutionary and the Epic should just be Epic.
 
I would be on to this being performed in a module... of course we are not sure if the connectors leave a pipe big enough for that much brain-module communication, or if those pipes coming from (and going to) the modules go deep enough into the heart of the beast for this magnitude of modularity... but I'd pay an additional $500.- without thinking twice if that is what was necessary and the plan was for it to come in this flavor. Of course I would hope to get the module as soon as Scarlet were out.

Even if it doesn't do a lick to speed up release, it will make the natives a less restless if they hear that. ;)
 
There is one variable we are missing here that could change people's minds. I would be shocked if HDRx™™ doesn't REQUIRE SSDs. If that is the case we are looking at a lot more then just $1,000 for HDRx™™ on the Scarlet. The cheapest SSD module is $1,500 and the cheapest SSD is $950. You also need the $250 RED station SSD module. This would mean the MINIMUM needed to record HDRx™™ on Scarlet would be $3,700 extra. That is more then just the Scarlet Cinema brain itself.

It's possible HDRx™™ doesn't require SSDs but since it is two streams simultaneously I think it is a safe bet it does. Eeasy HDR may be able to record to RED drives or CF cards as the processing is done before it hits the media.

A module that adds HDRx™ to Scarlet would be a no brainer.
 
Reading the replies, it crossed my mind that the big companies that feel endangered by Red would probably wish to encourage their employees to register at this forum and post replies such as: "No, Scarlet should not have HDRx™ at all! Actually, it should only have 2k and come out as late as possible and with plenty of bugs!" :001_rolleyes:
I guess a feel of HDRx™ in Scarlet, even if a slight one (with 2k or less on basic frame rate) without any special hardware upgrades would have a large impact on the Red userbase. Seeing it in action on an "entry-level" camera (3K as an entry-level camera, that speaks well of the wizardry at work by the Red team) would make everyone wish they could get their hands on the bigger ones, and would make them capable of handling the bigger ones as well.:thumbup1:
 
Mark Phelan said:
Paul makes a very good point. If there is not enough of a real-world difference between Scarlet and Epic, then many of those who placed a deposit will simply ask for a refund and move over to Scarlet and save the green. And, if Scarlet keeps inching up and up in cost, then there will be droves who abandon it for a less expensive solution, even if it isn't as good of a solution.
Click to expand...

Why should we do armchair market analysis for Red? I'm sure they can do that on their own, especially helped by answers to the question posed in the initial post of this thread. The question is whether we would pay about another $1,000 for HDRx™ in Scarlet.

My answer is unreservedly 'yes', especially in the 2/3" fixed. Built in at first or a module released later, either way would work.
 
Justin O'Neill said:
There is one variable we are missing here that could change people's minds. I would be shocked if HDRx™™™ doesn't REQUIRE SSDs. If that is the case we are looking at a lot more then just $1,000 for HDRx™™™ on the Scarlet. The cheapest SSD module is $1,500 and the cheapest SSD is $950. You also need the $250 RED station SSD module. This would mean the MINIMUM needed to record HDRx™™™ on Scarlet would be $3,700 extra. That is more then double the Scarlet Cinema brain.

It's possible HDRx™™™ doesn't require SSDs but since it is two streams simultaneously I think it is a safe bet it does. Eeasy HDR may be able to record to RED drives or CF cards as the processing is done before it hits the media.

A module that adds HDRx™™ to Scarlet would be a no brainer.
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Exactly.

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=654026&postcount=118
 
I think Justin is prob right about HDRx™™™™™™™™™™™™™ requiring a SSD;
But Please no more modules ! Build it right first time.
Why not offer as suggested two options. Regular Scarlet and
a Scarlet HDRx™™™™™™™™™™™™™™ package with SSDrive + module and 1.8" Reader

The key to this would be making the HDRx™™™™™™™™™™™™™™ and SSD pricing more attractive to the user.
SSD is here to stay, it is going to be the defacto recording medium for prob the next ten years so why not get on board early and lead the way. Also the cost of SSD is set to fall this month when Inter offer their new 25nm chips with 600gb capacity.
My 2 Cents
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
I would be on to this being performed in a module... of course we are not sure if the connectors leave a pipe big enough for that much brain-module communication, or if those pipes coming from (and going to) the modules go deep enough into the heart of the beast for this magnitude of modularity...
Click to expand...

That's exactly the thinking I had earlier when I said this type of module might need to be an additional 'brain' with processors & the whole 9 yards which would make it cost far more than $1000.
 
If people are willing to spend extra for this feature, why not invest in an Epic instead of letting everybody else pay for a feature they would want? Wouldn't this practically turn Scarlet into a Epic. I mean how much of a difference would there really be?
 
Jesper Sichlau said:
If people are willing to spend extra for this feature, why not invest in an Epic instead of letting everybody else pay for a feature they would want? Wouldn't this practically turn Scarlet into a Epic. I mean how much of a difference would there really be?
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Oh, I don't know... something on the order of $24,000. :idea:

And no, I don't think adding this one feature will "practically turn Scarlet into an Epic."
 
Peter Majtan said:
I have added thread and poll at the SCARLETUSER with more choices. The simple YES/NO is very limited...

http://www.scarletuser.com/showthread.php?t=4856

In any case I like the modular DSMC concept that makes obsolescence obsolete - so why not make a separate HDRx™™™™™™ brains?
My main concern would not be the $1000 price tag, but rather the implications this would have on the delivery schedule...

:devil: Peter
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I agree with Peter,a simple yes /no is very limited,especially having read through this thread from start to finish. Time for a `Poll upgrade`, a couple more options? (see Scarletuser poll)

Jim,if possible,could we have some more info if such an upgrade will delay delivery and if a module could be an alternative,or is HDRx™™™™™™ only possible with a board in the body and if so ,could the upgrade be optional at order time ? (which might mean non HDR`d Scarlets would be stuck that way unless a return to base for the extra board was offered,like current MX`d R1`s coming home for new sensors)

I think if a module was even a touch more than $1000 it would not be prohibitive and it would satisfy both keeping the current pricing for those who don`t want it and also give the choice of future upgrade.
The fact that we have a voice in how this comes about or not is pretty cool.
 
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$1000 may not be $1000

$1000 may not be $1000

Guys,

I'm fairly sure that RED's thinking on this (Right now) has been, "let's see how good we can make HDR in EPIC!"

Then of course the Scarlet crowd came along and said "Hey, we want it too!".

This got RED thinking. From their posts, it's clear that Scarlet was NOT DESIGNED for HDR, and to do so would, in Jim's words: Require some new boards.

These are not PCI-E boards, so for those of you who are saying "I only want it if it will not increase development time" you should change your vote to "no" cause OF COURSE it will increase development time! They have to go back and change the Scarlet Brain! (And no.. This is NOT a module.. It's a modification to the brain itself).

Also, remember Jim did not inventory the exact parts, labor, and development for this.. He threw it out there as a concept. So don't take the $1000 as a SET IN STONE NUMBER (I know a lot of you do this often).

As this stage, if RED is GUESSING $1,000 then you'd do well to figure $1,500.00 If this is a deal-breaker for you, then once again, you should reconsider.

Justin (my bud) is also correct that additional modules may be needed to record.

You're moving into EPIC territory here, and that's fine. Just remember, the closer you get to Epic, the further you will get from a low price point.

So you've been warned.. If the price goes up later, and you say "Hey THIS SUCKS.. RED SUCKS.. Jim said $1,000!!!".

No Jim GUESSED $1,000.00... Be assured, there will be more to this as they move it along.

Am I in favor of Scarlet having HDR? Nope.. Too far along. The damn camera is only $4,750.00... Put it in another version later on. But let's get this one out.

My take

Jay
 
The longer I wait for Scarlet, the more able I will be to purchase an Epic. Scarlet already has more capabilities and power than I currently have and is perfect for my current level of moviemaking. If this option is going to make me wait even longer then I don't want it. If it can be a module then that would be awesome.

My answer: No.
 
With a percentage that close, I don't think Jim will pull the trigger on the extra $1000. My bet is those of us wanting the HDRx in Scarlet are still going to go for it if it doesn't have it. But, the other half who, don't want it/cant afford the extra $1000, might not go for it. As a businessman, he will prob get us all to go Scarlet, and ,if possible, do an HDRx module.
 
My bet is those of us wanting the HDRx™ in Scarlet are still going to go for it if it doesn't have it. But, the other half who, don't want it/cant afford the extra $1000, might not go for it
Click to expand...

I think there is a potentially larger demographic of people who *will* go for it if it has HDR, where they might not currently consider it strongly enough against a similarly priced larger sensor video cam.
 
As a documentary maker I see that the dilemma is that the fixed is best suited to my run and gun shooting, but that the my work will also benefit the most from HDR since I have very little control over my light. Thus, the cheapest cam will benefit the most from an expensive upgrade, especially since this the the cam most likely to be used in uncontrolled situations.

Having said that, price is an issue. So many people propose a HDR module as way to delay the financial outlay, but will the fixed still be useful for EFP work with four or five modules sticking off the back? MX type return to factory upgrade may be better.

Any rational decision requires knowledge of the DR of the unmodified fixed. If it is 11 or more stops then HDR may not be essential.

A very tough call. Do not want to delay delivery one day. Rather shoot with more limited HDR than not shoot. The real cost of a fixed system has gone up already with the strong suggestion that SSD modules may be required.

As an ex software dev manager I know that feature creep is never ending. Please deliver the cheaper usable solution as soon as possible.
 
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