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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Release It Already

Terry VerHaar said:
And to those who think RED is going to be "one-upped" by anything that is currently in the market or close to being there... think again. If the new Canons or the DSLRs meet your needs, go for it. But you'd be doing yourself a disservice by convincing yourself they are "just as good." :arf:
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Ahh, you are one of these lucky guys that knows every product that will be released between now and Scarlet's eventual release!

So the AF-100 could not possibly be "just as good" for film making as the fixed Scarlet? At roughly the same low price point, they will both have comprimises.... so you cannot begin to judge that until you try both.

You're doing yourself a diservice by convincing yourself that RED are the only company that can make good film making equipment to match your budget.
 
Jim Retar said:
Ahh, you are one of these lucky guys that knows every product that will be released between now and Scarlet's eventual release!

So the AF-100 could not possibly be "just as good" for film making as the fixed Scarlet? At roughly the same low price point, they will both have comprimises.... so you cannot begin to judge that until you try both.

You're doing yourself a diservice by convincing yourself that RED are the only company that can make good film making equipment to match your budget.
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You are mischaracterizing what I said - I did say "currently in the market or close to being there." Perhaps I should have be more granular and said "based on what has been announced." IMO there isn't anything out there THAT WE KNOW OF, that has specs to match Scarlet. I have talked with people who swear that their 5D is fabulous. More power to them but the specs just don't bear out that they will match Scarlet. After line skipping, h.264 and whatever else, it's a miracle the images look as good as they do. And for other cameras - 4:2:2 doesn't give the flexibility of RAW. 1080 isn't 3K. Modularity, pricing, codec, data rates, dynamic range, frame rates and the like are all better features.

And, AFAIK, the AF-100 is not shooting RAW (along with not matching some of these other features). And, if not, again my opinion is that it simply is not as good - by definition. Etc, etc, etc down the line.

And, no, I don't think RED is the only company that CAN make good equipment but, right now, they look like the ones that are headed toward making the best in class. Sure, iPhone 4 can do things Scarlet won't, as does 7D, Alexa, etc. But for what Scarlet is designed to do, I don't think there is anything yet announced that will match it. And you are welcome to disagree with me - if you like what the 7D delivers, get it now. Or, if you think the specs of the AF-100 will trump Scarlet, wait for that one instead.

But I think you missed the real point of my post by leaving some of the what I said out of your quoted portion. That is, for people to stop throwing tantrums because Scarlet is not here. On that front, perhaps you and I agree that a camera that can be purchased today IS "better" than one that isn't shipping, if you need it today. So, my original point was, buy any camera you like/want/need today, just be aware that it probably won't match up to what you'll get when Scarlet is released. And all the whining and "threats" to buy other cameras won't change the shipping date. I am happily shooting on my JVC HD-110, on RED ONE, and I am thinking of a 7D (mostly because I also want a new still cam). But, I will jump on Scarlet as soon as I have the opportunity.
 
Why do I need to bring up other points you made... I agree people should shoot on whatever they have now.... and to argue that a camera released sometime in the future, one without a release date, will not be better... is crazy. That is technology for you.

But.. when you say "close to being in the market" is it fair to say "out before or the same time as Scarlet" (the camera that is being discussed and is supposed to be compared to).

The AF-100 falls directly into that timeline and looks like it could be capable of some very interesting results for the indie film maker. It could well be "just as good" if not much better... when compromises are taken into account.

The AF-100 doesn't have RAW, correct. It does have HD-SDI though so can capture uncompressed from there (not RAW, but very good).

The AF-100 does however does have a sensor roughly 4 times larger. That is far better than "just as good".

There are loads of other up and downside to each system (and the next gen DSLRs that are bound to come before Scarlet).

I'm all for the fixed Scarlet as it fits my business needs almost to perfection... but for indie film makers, with say, $6k or so to burn, options are going to be very impressive.

I've said it before, if RED release the 2/3" Scarlet before 2010, it will do very, very well..... another year? I think they will miss the boat.
 
Simply put, I think what distinguishes a digital cinema camera from an HD video camera:

1. Uncompromised intra frame recording format. 4:4:4 RGB or Bayer raw, compressed or uncompressed.
2. At least 2k digital cinema format native resolution, 2048 x1080p or 2048x1152 16:9 minimum.
3: At least 2/3"/16mm sized sensor.

Show me anything under $10k currently or announced within the next year other than Scarlet that meets all three of those conditions.
 
David Rasberry said:
Simply put, I think what distinguishes a digital cinema camera from an HD video camera:

1. Uncompromised intra frame recording format. 4:4:4 RGB or Bayer raw, compressed or uncompressed.
2. At least 2k digital cinema format native resolution, 2048 x1080p or 2048x1152 16:9 minimum.
3: At least 2/3"/16mm sized sensor.

Show me anything under $10k currently or announced within the next year other than Scarlet that meets all three of those conditions.
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(Thank you, David!)

Yeah - what he said! :thumbup1:
 
Jim Retar said:
I've said it before, if RED release the 2/3" Scarlet before 2010, it will do very, very well..... another year? I think they will miss the boat.
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What boat? This is an industry, not a pleasure cruise or a trip to the the new world. Things change all the time. There are no real deadlines for any of this stuff -- we can all do our jobs with the tools available today.

Scarlet will do just fine whenever it comes out. Almost everyone with an Epic will get one, just to have the 2/3" sensor. And indie filmmakers will use whatever they can get their hands on, which will include Scarlet whether it ships in the next three months or the next 18 months.

One new video camera from Panasonic isn't going to hurt Scarlet, any more than a $70K Arri digital camera hurts Epic. There is no "one camera to rule them all", and there likely never will be. :cheers2:
 
Terry VerHaar said:
I don't know. Maybe because, uh... one of them WAS the point I was making. :idea:
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But that ONE point was completely patronizing to anyone who was thinking of getting anything other than a RED camera. It was also completely nearsighted.

Anyway, it gets really boring trying to have an interesting conversation on here about various cameras (including RED) without things getting quickly, well.. boring.

RED is king, high five... over and out.
 
Jim Retar said:
But that ONE point was completely patronizing to anyone who was thinking of getting anything other than a RED camera. It was also completely nearsighted.

Anyway, it gets really boring trying to have an interesting conversation on here about various cameras (including RED) without things getting quickly, well.. boring.

RED is king, high five... over and out.
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yeah, this is REDuser... a development community of mostly active Red Camera owners or users... so you are surprised why?

DVXUSER.com has all the conversations you could want on ALL cameras.
 
Wouldn't it be nice if Jim read the title of this thread and simply said, "Okay, guys you can go to the Red Store now."
 
Everyone can then cut the gibber gabber and shoot their projects in 3K-5K resolution.
 
AnthonyFlores said:
Someone who's kind of an "insider" in Hollywood just told me it would be released in November 2010. He has worked for a lot of the studios, Disney and other companies in the industry.

However, he's not even a "red owner" so it would seem stranger that he'd know something before any of the hard core red veterans on this board.

Anyway, take that date for what it's worth. If it's true -- then it means we're about 3 months away from the first Scarlet release. Plus or minus a couple of weeks. :thumbup1:

But like Philip Bloom recently said on his blog, it's hard to get fully excited about the Scarlet anymore until it actually ships.

Anthony
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I really doubt your source and any truth to that statement, no disrespect.
I recently lucked out and got to shoot with a red employee who assured me that even most employees get their info from following the forum just like us. Just proved to me that their are no huge secrets being hidden from us.
 
Free SCARLET, Free SCARLET, Free SCARLET..... She has been locked up for 2 years now for a crime she did not commit.:incazzato: Your honor on behalf of the "cinemotographic" community:grouphug: we ask that she be released immediately into the hands of her respectful owners.:drool5:
 
I know it can be frustrating to wait (I have been following the scarlet since day one) but frankly Red is doing some amazing things that are forcing the industry forward. Do you honestly think we would have the 5d mII, 7d, Nex vg10 or panasonic af100 if Red had not announced the DSMC? Besides Red is not forcing you to wait, you can easily buy something else, but we endure because we know when it does come out it will be awesome. Also Jim stated that the scarlet and epic would be out before the end of the year, so stop bitching :).
 
Ryan Sparks said:
Do you honestly think we would have the 5d mII, 7d, Nex vg10 or panasonic af100 if Red had not announced the DSMC?
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The 5DII was announced about 1 week before RED scrapped the 3K for $3k system and went to DSMC. The D90 was out 6 months before. If anything, you could argue that DSMC was a reaction to vDSLRs.

Now I love RED and they have pushed the high end market to react, possibly decades before it's time.... but this myth that the DSLRs were a reaction to RED One (or even more crazily, DSMC) needs to be quashed.

Video on still cameras has been around pre-RED (in VGA mode). The progression to HD was obvious and asked for many times (again, pre-RED).
 
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Ryan Sparks said:
I know it can be frustrating to wait (I have been following the scarlet since day one) but frankly Red is doing some amazing things that are forcing the industry forward. Do you honestly think we would have the 5d mII, 7d, Nex vg10 or panasonic af100 if Red had not announced the DSMC? Besides Red is not forcing you to wait, you can easily buy something else, but we endure because we know when it does come out it will be awesome. Also Jim stated that the scarlet and epic would be out before the end of the year, so stop bitching :).
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Ryan one more outburst and you will be found in contempt of court and sentenced to life without Scarlet. And under penalty of cinemotographic law forced to use Standard Definition video for the remainder of your natural born carrer in film and video.:emote_hanged:
 
Jim Retar said:
The 5DII was announced about 1 week before RED scrapped the 3K for $3k system and went to DSMC. The D90 was out 6 months before. If anything, you could argue that DSMC was a reaction to vDSLRs.

Now I love RED and they have pushed the high end market to react, possibly decades before it's time.... but this myth that the DSLRs were a reaction to RED One (or even more crazily, DSMC) needs to be quashed.

Video on still cameras has been around pre-RED (in VGA mode). The progression to HD was obvious and asked for many time (again, pre-RED).
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Your objection is duely noted and will be admissable in this court.:rolleyes:
 
DSMC , the whole modular system concept, was a reaction to 6 months of massive input from this forum on all the features they wanted with 3k for $3k.

Canon and Nikon VDSLR's were a reaction to the demands of photojournalists for video features.
 
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