Decency...

[Rob Ruffo]

In addition to all the offenses listed, there has generally been an increase in bickering here. It didn't used to be that way. For a while, we had a really friendly and positive community here. A very rare oasis on the net, compared to places like C.com where they do nothing but bicker.

I'm not sure what changed and when. I hope we can get back to that. A zero-tolerance policy on personal insults and attacks and all forms of bickering might help. This would include attacks on people's assumed motives and their integrity (like what happened to Rodney).

When I see that stuff at the Timescapes forum, I kill it on sight and threaten to delete the offender's entire account instantly, along with an IP ban. That has left our forum probably the most peaceful, friendly and helpful corner of the net you will find. ;^)

Here I disagree - lively, heated arguments are fun and we all learn from them.

Then again, I am Italian, and live in a French city. Personal insults are how we show we care

 

[Rob Ruffo]

I'm a lowly film student here to learn from the professionals. Hopefully the calm, experienced, and clear-headed attitude that comes with being a professional can prevail. And attitude says a lot more to me about what level a filmmaker is at than gear used.

I work with pros in film production almost every day.

Many are very talented, few are "calm and clear headed", at least, not the best ones.

It's not an accounting firm....

 

[Vladimir Cassel]

I work with pros in film production almost every day.

Many are very talented, few are "calm and clear headed", at least, not the best ones.

It's not an accounting firm....

Sure, and this isn't a film set :wink:

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Here I disagree - lively, heated arguments are fun and we all learn from them.

Then again, I am Italian, and live in a French city. Personal insults are how we show we care

HAHAHA!!!

Sadly, I know exactly what you mean. My other half is Italian, as well as the grandparents I was brought up with. Being raised in Argentina only adds to it.

But I am pretty balanced out now since I finished my High School here in the States, where I have lived for over 14 years, and my wife is Swedish-German from Minnesota.

:grouphug:

 

[Ian Laurie]

Think i will chime in... just cause its 11:30 and other than watch render bars, I got nothing else to do.back before i ordered my Red One, there was very little known about the camera. I came to RedUSER trying to figure out if I was going to be in over my head with what was rumoured to be a very flawed camera with all kinds of problems, particularly in post. I wandered the forum for a few weeks and decided that i could handle the more confusing problems people were having. Unfortunately, I ordered my camera about 3 days after NAB 2008 and had to wait till october for it to be delivered. I studied every complaint, problem, error, and frustration rant on the forum. I read all the responses. When my camera landed, I had not a single problem with it. Within a month I was on my first feature film set, helping the DOP get the most out of the camera, and able to solve every problem that cropped up. I love this camera. I loved RedUSER, for awhile.... Lately I tend to pop in to see if there is any news from Jim & Co. There is so much arguing ( don't get me wrong, i have waded in a few times myself) that I have lost interest in actually finding anything new or cool or better yet, a solid warning. Some examples i have seen are the mac vs. PC debates. Did people have their preferences when i was looking before... of course they did, but they said them clearly and only maybe included a light hearted jab at the other side. Lately its a " your stupid because..." type mentality on here. And I am disappointed that I have contributed to it as well. Lets get back to the lighthearted humour. The massively informational discoveries and most of all, to the amazing things that each of us is discovering about technique and abilities that these camera's allow us to do. also the fixes or pitfalls of certain situations. My apologies for joining any of the debasing arguments that I may have contributed to. Lets make this a great place again!

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Ian.

Back in the days we were a little loyal club with a common hope, despite different backgrounds. that we could make this thing work out for our different needs.

We were pretty much a closed society where Jim & co took part in the discussions on a daily basis and we all felt we could contribute to the development of a new program.

Of course there were trolls pulling our legs, but the general mood here was that of some people supporting a vision - in their own ways.

Now... The cam has a userbase in the tens of thousands, it is used in all levels of productions, the "management" have become a lot more reserved, we - the noble fighters for RED (LOL!) have been attacked with real threats - @ least from a commercial perspective, both from Canon and Arri. All of a sudden it is we who have to protect our turfs...

Or so it seems...

And many of the original contributers have taken some time off Reduser.

I pulled out for a year... And I am continually considering doing that permanently...

There were allways heated discussions here, though... Just not so much stupid discussion. Except from the odd troll scaring off the experienced "external" guys, eventually not really contributing to the regards for this forum.

And. You know. Advice used to be free.
Now people have made their commercial products, which they need to protect.

I think that's fine, but:

Number of potential users
More closed development
Competition
Fresh users, for whom this is only "another cam" (which it truly allways only have been)
An extremely mixed userbase
DSLRs
Multitude of post options and workflows

have all contributed to a less pioneering spirit here.
And I cannot see how those times can come back.

But the forum hasn't really adjusted to the new circumstances in the way I had imagined it would...

 

[Ian Laurie]

Well, you may be right, maybe we can't go back, But i still think its worth a try, no? Why is it not possible for the AVID, Adobe, and FCP groups be pioneers within their own circles without the bashing. This is what i don't understand. I am gonna try. regardless of its impending failure

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

I agree that certainly in the past 3 months I read more posts that are part of an argument about the minutia of subjective number-crunching that its hard to filter through to the conversations that I find are interesting.

As usual, for some the relative annomynity of the internet allows for some of the social niceties to go out of the window in favour of a witty and cutting remark.

I love creative passion, but hate unwarrented rudeness.


oh and finally - I was at a presentation 2 weeks ago in which someone showed me their showreel.. straight away I noticed at least 10 clips that had been filmed by other people (two of whom are from this forum). I took him aside and politely asked when and where this was shot, which company held the rights etc... very red faced he told me that he was just showing the quality of the Red camera so clients could see the quality they would be paying for. Turns out he dosen't even own a Red, just planned to rent it out as and when he needed it.

 

[Elsie N]

Some, many, of us yearn for the good old days. As Gunleik and Ian pointed out, the early days of Reduser were vibrant with hope, expectation, and surprise. I was mildly disappointed when I learned that Epic would not ship out as a Beta camera. I loved those days when the R-1 was delivered, complained about, then fixed. Had to be hard for the Red Team to hear those complaints come flooding in when they had busted their butts to get the camera to the point it was at. They apparently learned that the Consumer Monster has a voracious appetite for more. And they delivered. But they also figured out that you let a few very knowledgeable people do the Beta so now we await their recommendations to be acted upon for our camera. That plus having the success of the R-1 under their belts, the RED Team can pretty much figure out what was needed in the first place, on their own.

So now we wait, and like a family on an extended automobile trip, we spend a lot of time together asking "are we there yet?" As of right now, the answer is no. So we go back to killing time as we continue driving. And of course, unless you drug the passengers, a long car trip will include some sniping and temporary flashes of anger. So what? When the Epic comes out, it will be like arriving at our destination and our attention will turn to the Epic. Everything else will be pretty much forgotten. Let's just accept this for what it is. Time Abuse... Waiting.

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Then again, I am Italian, and live in a French city. Personal insults are how we show we care

LOL

 

[Justin Armstrong]

Umm, welcome to the internets?
I just find this whole thread hilarious/ridiculous, while instead of doing something productive, people are debating what constitutes debating.

I personally have no interest in the Red One because I cant afford it, and I just spent my "scarlet savings" on a new car last week.
I've been asked, "Why do you bother coming here then?"
I come back about once a week to read up on a wealth of information here.
Yes, I have to pick through the biased opinions, but in there somewhere is usually a ton of film making tips that I enjoy reading.
And every now and then I'll come across an entertaining thread like this, and humor myself while some footage renders or to kill some time.

 

[Martin Weiss]

I'll be out for a walk...

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

and all this time......

and all this time......

Do you mean that a debate about what constitutes debating is NOT constituted?
Dammit!!!! I was soooooo into it....:beatdeadhorse5:

 

[Justin Armstrong]

Do you mean that a debate about what constitutes debating is NOT constituted?
Dammit!!!! I was soooooo into it....:beatdeadhorse5:

I just find the circular reasoning/arguments more foolish than cute.

 

[G Lap]

Here I disagree - lively, heated arguments are fun and we all learn from them.

Then again, I am Italian, and live in a French city. Personal insults are how we show we care

I work with pros in film production almost every day.

Many are very talented, few are "calm and clear headed", at least, not the best ones.....

Probably because they are French or Italian .

 

[Elsie N]

Umm, welcome to the internets?
I just find this whole thread hilarious/ridiculous, while instead of doing something productive, people are debating what constitutes debating.

And yet, you fell into the same trap as the rest of us... you posted.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Here I disagree - lively, heated arguments are fun and we all learn from them.

Then again, I am Italian, and live in a French city. Personal insults are how we show we care

I'm just curious.... I basically proposed that personal attacks should be banned here. Are you saying that personal attacks are useful and should be allowed?

To me, if you are in a debate with someone on the net and you start making personal attacks, it pretty much means that you've already lost the debate. :nads:

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Umm, welcome to the internets?
I just find this whole thread hilarious/ridiculous, while instead of doing something productive, people are debating what constitutes debating.

I personally have no interest in the Red One because I cant afford it, and I just spent my "scarlet savings" on a new car last week.
I've been asked, "Why do you bother coming here then?"
I come back about once a week to read up on a wealth of information here.
Yes, I have to pick through the biased opinions, but in there somewhere is usually a ton of film making tips that I enjoy reading.
And every now and then I'll come across an entertaining thread like this, and humor myself while some footage renders or to kill some time.

One can be laughing in front of a mirror for a very long time and not know it. 0.02 Just sayin'. Been there.

If you don't care, don't bother those who do. Threads are like a TV, only with a mouse instead of a remote.

 

[Brandon Kraemer]

... if you are in a debate with someone on the net and you start making personal attacks, it pretty much means that you've already lost the debate.

Only the mods can ultimately control who is allowed to post here, based on what the excepted threshold of behavior is. Personal attacks are a waste of energy and limit the person doing the attacking, not the person being attacked. Not responding to such an attack, and instead use the caution sign to report the offensive post seems to be the best way to police the threads with out escalating the argument. Debate is not about argument.

 

[Brook Willard]

That's it, I'm banning everybody.