Decency...

[Jonathan Stevenson]

ebb and flow...

While that is part of it, if it isn't one thing, it is often another... Though, I don't necessarily expect the coming of some highly anticipated cameras finally to the market to calm things down any

Agreed. I just think we'll see a new influx of POSITIVITY when that happens.

 

[Sidney L. Plaut]

good post.

The thrashing of talented DP´s who are not RED thrilled, is what I find the most embarrassing.

"post" censure can some times be a good thing...

 

[Andy Jarosz]

It's a REDuser forum, so naturally most people are going to be highly supportive of anything RED. When someone promotes another camera or points out a flaw in RED, decency tends to go out the window. I'm willing to bet the same thing would happen in reverse at any [insert camera company]user.

Does it make it any more acceptable? Of course not! It's just people are excitable, doubly so when they're "fanatics"--whether they know it or not.

 

[Jay Gannon]

The problem is when those people scare away valuable new users who are here to share.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

At the forum like this I'm more concerned about a spread of misinformation, misinterpretation and misunderstandings than anything else.

A common and kind of strong community decency that you can find here more than at many other similar places on the internet can be also sometimes interrupted by…

but that's too far away from any influence of an ordinary RED user...

 

[Anson Fogel]

Yes Jay, or change the tone of a discussion - polarizing a discussion into black and white, no red yes red, or no b cam yes b cam, etc - when the value of these forums often is detail, nuance, pros and cons, and looking at complex subjects based on - critically - others' experiences.

Simple admin yanking of offending persons or discussions is the nuclear option, but I think there is a better one - peer pressure. The community sets its own tone, mores, values and rules - we can communicate our values in our own posts. If someone is stepping into hyperbole, offense, intolerance or anger - if enough people calmly chime in that that tone is not how we do things, they'll have to listen.

We set the tone.

 

[Elsie N]

There was (and still is, thank goodness) a poster who was misunderstood by many and was criticized roundly, even to the point of suggesting his Avatar looked "scowling", but which I think was his normal visage. And it didn't look scowling to me. But anyway, many of the good and decent "vigilantes" on REDuser were ready to draw and quarter the man. When I see a post that doesn't fit within my parameters of "decency", I can recognize that for what it is and move on. I suggest we start a Sunday School class for those who don't think that debate should be heated, but should follow the rules of the 18th Century English elite.

More tea, anyone?

 

[Jay Gannon]

Yes Jay, or change the tone of a discussion - polarizing a discussion into black and white, no red yes red, or no b cam yes b cam, etc - when the value of these forums often is detail, nuance, pros and cons, and looking at complex subjects based on - critically - others' experiences.

Simple admin yanking of offending persons or discussions is the nuclear option, but I think there is a better one - peer pressure. The community sets its own tone, mores, values and rules - we can communicate our values in our own posts. If someone is stepping into hyperbole, offense, intolerance or anger - if enough people calmly chime in that that tone is not how we do things, they'll have to listen.

We set the tone.

Exactly, in the wildlife filming thread I was sharing my not great experiences with the RED for natural history, and you came along and shared your very positive but balanced experience, I learned some valuable insight from someone who is in the field more than myself and came away happy, but anyone reading that thread in its entirety will come away with a bad taste.

 

[Elsie N]

At the forum like this I'm more concerned about a spread of misinformation, misinterpretation and misunderstandings than anything else.

A common and kind of strong community decency that you can find here more than at many other similar places on the internet can be also sometimes interrupted by…

but that's too far away from any influence of an ordinary RED user...

As usual, Sanjin gets it.

 

[Anson Fogel]

Elsie, nothing at all wrong with heated debate, quite the contrary. However, when the heat moves beyond allowing the debate itself, when one attacks the individual rather than his ideas, when the facts are no longer considered, its no longer heated debate - its precisely the opposite, and we stop learning.

 

[Elsie N]

However, when the heat moves beyond allowing the debate itself, when one attacks the individual rather than his ideas, when the facts are no longer considered, its no longer heated debate - its precisely the opposite, and we stop learning.

Heh, heh, that's true... the part about we stop learning... but those of us on the sidelines are at least entertained.

What I may be getting at is that this is not strictly a learning site. It is a social site where learning takes place. Some of my most effective professors back in the day mixed humor, heated debate, a thorough dissecting of the issue, and achieved learning.

My least effective ones were the ones that politely told me what they thought and never took questions.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Sometimes I am really appalled by how (thankfully a few) posters seem to lose all sense of decency when posting:

• A poster suggests that a very respected DP is taking money so that he would use a specific camera.
• A poster re-labels the RED showreel to make it look like his own work.
• Someone suggests that another very respected DP is overrated and only popular because he runs a discussion board.
• A number of posters call a perfectly workable camera a piece of crap or compare it to the iPhone.
• Several posters get personal over a commercially successful film, and make assumptions about the director that leave a very bad taste in the mouth.
• Respected craftsmen come to this forum to talk about reservations or problems they had with a RED camera, and are subsequently ridiculed, attacked or find their motives questioned.
• Private e-mails or PMs are made public, photos copied without permission, whole sections of web pages copied, quotes taken out of context.
• Other redusers are badmouthed before trying out the proper channels.
• People openly discussing violence as a solution to get money owed.
• Posters filling up the For Sale sections with lots of separate threads, rather than combining them into one post.
• People still refusing to adhere to the Real Name policy that has been in affect for over a year now.

Please, before pushing the Submit button, think twice. If a post makes you angry, feel free to write a reply to get it out of your system, but go outside for a little walk before you actually submit it. Do not get personal. Do not ask for pity. Put yourself in the other person's shoes.

Think.
Before.
You.
Post.

Show respect.

And watch this one: http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-behave-on-an-internet-forum


P.S. If you have not converted your screen name to your real name, post here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=32432&page=666

I was really waiting to see when one of the MOderators will do this post...WEEL SAID MARTIN!!

 

[David Birdy]

Good to remember ...treat people as you would like to be treated....

Dave

 

[Dan Kanes]

I was actually VERY offended when a moderator removed a post noting that another member here FAILED TO PAY FOR A RENTAL.

This is hilarious and sad, and failure to pay is probably one of the worst offenses that can be committed on a forum.

Any other forum I have seen will openly prevent SCAM ARTISTS from ripping off innocent business people.

Apparently they can find refuge here in Reduser because of some politically correct moderation.
Not trying to get Banned Here, but I do have the right to speak my mind even if it offends someone.
:icon_bs:

 

[Jay Gannon]

Last I checked Freedom of Speech was an American RIGHT, and Red is an AMERICAN COMPANY.

Not trying to get Banned Here, but I do have the right to speak my mind even if it offends someone.
:icon_bs:

No rights here, your an invited guest on the forum and must play by their rules. Read the T&C when you sign up. No right to say anything on a private forum.

 

[Curtis Stanton]

Last I checked Freedom of Speech was an American RIGHT, and Red is an AMERICAN COMPANY.

Did you really check? Ever? I guess this misinterpretation of the First Amendment has become one of my Internet forum pet peeves.

The First Amendment reads:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The prohibition defined here is against Congress passing laws abridging free speech, etc. You are not guaranteed the right by the Constitution of the United States to say whatever you want, where ever you want, when ever you want. There is nothing in the First Amendment, stated or implied, granting individuals unrestrained freedom to spout off in this or any other venue.

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Dan...

Last time I heard this was the RED forum, not the minor causes or conciliation forums.

And I'm sure RED will decide to remove what in the future can be considered defamation.

As many pointed in the original thread, the 30 day credit is common practice (something I wasn't aware of), so one at least should wait before taking any action.

Name and shame is not cool and I'm sure RED user should not be known for these practices. Warn your fellow business partners, but posting about publicly doesn't feel right.

 

[Martin Weiss]

I had a long day at work, it's past 3 in the morning here, there is a thunderstorm brewing up outside, so instead of a reply, I'll use some quotes from other members. Since this argument pops up every so often.

I like some quality political, ethical discourse from time to time, but then there are places where I go to get that. When I come here, I want Red news, cine tech news, cinematography info, and some discussion of film content as it pertains to the art and craft of film making.

Personal diatribes and stone throwing I can do without […].
Think of yourself as a guest in someone's home. Bitching about a thread being closed down is kinda like telling your host their bathroom smells like shit.

Freedom of speech comes with the burden of responsibility and self-control.

It's not about snobbery or restricting the flow of information or censorship. it's about the scope of these forums. This is RED's house.

(unknown source) The beauty of the web is that no one can really CENSOR anyone. Bandwidth is cheap. There are plenty of places to have all the conversation and chatter that one can imbibe in any single day. Reduser has no obligation to be all things to all users - and with the abundance of other general information sites out there - they don't need to be.

I know that Jason made some very good posts on the subject, but am too tired to find it now. If anyone wants to lend me a (typing) hand...

 

[Frank Weeks]

Great post Martin and the above comments represent it well. Sometime things get a bit heated here but most can separate the beneficial from the boisterous.

You made some great points.

 

[Vladimir Cassel]

I'm a lowly film student here to learn from the professionals. Hopefully the calm, experienced, and clear-headed attitude that comes with being a professional can prevail. And attitude says a lot more to me about what level a filmmaker is at than gear used.