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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Working for free to land a bigger job

christopher witzke

christopher witzke

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Came close to listing mine yesterday after I found out about a trailer I shot for free to help get investment funds for the production of the entire film... with the agreement that I would shoot at my normal rate... that the producer did get the $200k but decided to buy an HVX and a macpro and shoot and edit it himself.... nice huh?

But woke up this morning... deleted the trailer footage from my RAID... had a latte.... and now I feel fine.

Now I'm thinking of writing a country song about a filmmaker getting used.... any ideas for lyrics? What rhymes with 4k?


MOD's NOTE: This and the following posts were moved from another (unrelated) thread that dealt with selling R1s.
 
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christopher witzke said:
Came close to listing mine yesterday after I found out about a trailer I shot for free to help get investment funds for the production of the entire film... with the agreement that I would shoot at my normal rate... that the producer did get the $200k but decided to buy an HVX and a macpro and shoot and edit it himself.... nice huh?

But woke up this morning... deleted the trailer footage from my RAID... had a latte.... and now I feel fine.
Click to expand...
At least you can sleep tight knowing that the $200k will be properly wasted away :-)
 
Jonathan Stevenson said:
At least you can sleep tight knowing that the $200k will be properly wasted away :-)
Click to expand...

Yes... but my complete contempt for the world is stronger.... my fantasy has always been "no boss, no clients".... I can only dream.
 
christopher witzke said:
Came close to listing mine yesterday after I found out about a trailer I shot for free to help get investment funds for the production of the entire film... with the agreement that I would shoot at my normal rate... that the producer did get the $200k but decided to buy an HVX and a macpro and shoot and edit it himself.... nice huh?
Click to expand...
There is a whole host of possibilities here ... what went down? OK, you produced a dynamite trailer which won a lot of money for him ...is this correct? He might just be trying to get as much dough for himself as possible ... he gets an HVX and a computer and the rest of the $200K. You got used, it happens every day. I turned down a feature which would have been educational but from the get go they tried to lowball me on my rate (my rates are already very reasonable) ... then with only 20% up front. I turned the deal down ... but here's the funny part. He said if he could use my RPP's I would get a line in the credits ... "Prime lenses provided by XXXXX." As they say in the Army, "If you don't have a sense of humour, you shouldn't have joined". Me I am going for total control on all projects ... that means Produce and/or Direct.

Just realized this thread is getting hijacked ....
 
Peter, at least you got offered something... I had a producer offering absolutely no money tell me "at least you'll see your equipment being used"...as if I need a producer to be using my own equipment!
 
but a very interesting topic. maybe a mod can open up a new thread?
do it for free to get a job never worked for me.
instead i tend to sponsor student...way more fun
 
christopher witzke said:
Came close to listing mine yesterday after I found out about a trailer I shot for free to help get investment funds for the production of the entire film... with the agreement that I would shoot at my normal rate... that the producer did get the $200k but decided to buy an HVX and a macpro and shoot and edit it himself.... nice huh?

But woke up this morning... deleted the trailer footage from my RAID... had a latte.... and now I feel fine.

Now I'm thinking of writing a country song about a filmmaker getting used.... any ideas for lyrics? What rhymes with 4k?
Click to expand...

Just go beat the shit out of the guy. Believe me you will feel a lot better.

Best, Peter:smash:
 
Noel, if interested we do have more then one MXed R1 for sale, just email me: ketchrossi@ketchframe.com

Yeah Kaya,

may I remind people our 123 man 6 R1's and 3 Photographer's crew, for the SIRENS of TI Free shoot to get MGM/MIRAGE contracts?

Free never really works, but we still must do it some times, I never give up and believe it has its place to work, but rarely ;~)
 
i hate these arguments:

we have a great script
we have a great cast
award winning director
next job with money is yours
great food

when a sentence starts with one of these arguments i usually hang up.
mostly these arguments come from producers who did produce small things or only shit.

but if a dp wants to test and i like his work, i am in.
 
I do it.
*Walk of shame*

I will work for free or very very low rates on something that I feel is being made with passion and love. I work with students, and people with no budgets. But if a production has a budget then no, I charge my full rates then. But I only do this on a limited basis and have to be fully convinced that its worth my while. Not only financially but emotionally and stressfully.
 
Just shadow the producer, put the trailer on YouTube, Vimeo, EyeBlast etc.... with your logo on it....
Do not mention the producer or title of the film.
Once the film gets released. Take the info and copy it to your video.
It will confuse the public and piss off the producer.
He will demand you take it down.
Tell him you will take it down after he pays you.
Let him sue. I doubt he will have much of 200K left
after production costs.

The only "free" work I do are for political candidates
or causes I believe in - all others pay to play.
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
we have a great script
we have a great cast
award winning director
next job with money is yours
Click to expand...

Those come directly from Film Producing for Dummies: The Jackass Edition. But seriously, those ARE the oldest lines in the book. Shoestring production 101. Classics.

Sure, sometimes we do favors to build relationships but before you agree to one ask yourself one simple question: Do I already have a relationship with this person? If the answer is No, then you have to re-evaluate. If you don't already have a broad basis for trust with a Producer, then you have no trust at all.

There is a great line in Rounders that I'll paraphrase; If you don't know who the chump at the table is inside of 20 minutes, then you are the chump.

If you are not willing to do it for free... Really for free... And that means watching others prosper from your labors without compensation... Then do not do it for free.

If the other party is offering you anything in exchange that you intend to collect, get it in writing.
 
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I feel like working for free only pays off when you're starting at the bottom. When I first moved out to LA I lined up two free gigs. The first was a short film where I was the 1st A/C. That led to a few paid gigs later on, 2 with the DP and 1 from the line producer. I also had to turn down 3-4 offers as well.

The 2nd free gig was DPing a feature that was zero budget, all improv, shot on 3 DVX100's at the same time (and sometimes even 5 or 6). It was a rough shoot, with some really long days, and everything that could go wrong went wrong, like a house crashed on the 101 (this really happened). It's been almost 3 years and the movie is still in rough cut. However, I had a blast and made some great friends. This has gotten me a handful of paid work over the past 2 years, and opened doors that led to some more work.

I'm really lucky.
 
Im really resenting the whole working for free thing. We all work for free when we are starting out, hoping to build an impressive reel to then start doing more paying work. The catch is this though - there is always someone starting out who is willing to work for free. They will use you until you feel that you've earned the right to charge, and then they will go and get some new suckers. It seems like you can either work for free or not at all. This isnt just cinematography, or even just the film business. Anything in entertainment has sufficient allure that there is an endless supply of people willing to work "for experience."' The end result is that we all get F*cked.
 
I'd setup an auto call function to phone him at 3am then again at 6am with a recording of his bad deeds requesting he return your images and any other of your copyrighted materials. then, i like the previous suggestion about u-tube. shot by " " etc.... that is of course if he really pissed ya off!
 
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