10 Scarlet Questions from Joseph Hutson

[Stephen Gentle]

BTW, I thought the fixed didn't live in the modular world. Is it even possible to add these ports?

If you plan to shoot in an XLR kind of environment, I would suggest stepping up from the Red handicam to a cinema package and skip the ugliness of mini-XLR converters.

Scarlet is not a handycam. Only the lens is permanently attached. You can put rear modules, side modules, side handle, bottom handles, etc. on it - anything you want from the DSMC system except the lens mounts.

 

[David Rasberry]

The fixed is completely modular just like the rest of the Scarlet/Epic system. The only thing not interchangeable is the lens.

You only need a simple cable, mini-TRS to XLR, to connect any pro XLR microphone directly to the brain. Not a biggie. The important feature is that Scarlet has two balanced microphone inputs with phantom power on the brain. A connector is just a connector. The I/O modules provide a lot more in the way of connections than just XLR's.

 

[Pascal Scheffers]

BTW, I thought the fixed didn't live in the modular world. Is it even possible to add these ports?

The only thing not modular about the 'fixed' is the lens. You cannot swap that.

Apart from that all other modules will work.

 

[Scott Crawley]

OK thanks for that. Permit me David to take issue with one point. A connector is not just a connector; it is a potential point of failure. In an audio signal chain you want to limit those as much as possible. With all of the pulling that mic cables endure, and the on again off again nature of adaptors, even one that is well secured is likely to fail before long and cause noise. If you baby your camera this could take longer to become an issue, but if it is a work horse, forgettaboutit.

I knew the handycam word would raise an eybrow or two. Lol I used it to put the fixed into context. In the Red world, the Fixed Scarlet is the handicam. I know that it saying a lot, (I certainly wouldn't compare it to a Sony Handycam.) but it is what it is; the baby brother. If you need more, go cine pkg.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

You only need a simple cable, mini-TRS to XLR, to connect any pro XLR microphone directly to the brain. Not a biggie. The important feature is that Scarlet has two balanced microphone inputs with phantom power on the brain. A connector is just a connector. The I/O modules provide a lot more in the way of connections than just XLR's.

Precisely. These ports will give top quality audio, and I intend to use them almost exclusively. The only thing I'm worried about is their durability.

 

[David Rasberry]

OK thanks for that. Permit me David to take issue with one point. A connector is not just a connector; it is a potential point of failure. In an audio signal chain you want to limit those as much as possible. With all of the pulling that mic cables endure, and the on again off again nature of adaptors, even one that is well secured is likely to fail before long and cause noise. If you baby your camera this could take longer to become an issue, but if it is a work horse, forgettaboutit.

I knew the handycam word would raise an eybrow or two. Lol I used it to put the fixed into context. In the Red world, the Fixed Scarlet is the handicam. I know that it saying a lot, (I certainly wouldn't compare it to a Sony Handycam.) but it is what it is. If you need more, go cine pkg.

I think of the fixed as a $10k servo controlled zoom lens with a free camera attached for a bargain price.

I am not particularly fond of mini-jacks either, but there are very high quality robust ones available. Given the size of the Scarlet brain, there was just no room for XLRs. I was one person that suggested putting the analog audio preamps in a separate module to begin with. Shielding mic level analog signals from all the noise of the digital circuitry in the brain is not a trivial task. Having the mic pre's in a separate module is all to the good as far as I'm concerned.

 

[joshua csehak]

The scratch mic's are so cute!

So do we have a verification on if the 1/8" TRS inputs will provide phantom power? I suppose it's possible -- I've just never seen it done before. If they do, I don't see why anyone's complaining.

If they don't, then I guess it comes down to the quality of the mic pre's in the I/O modules. If they're cheap-as-possible, which is what's on every camera (except maybe > $20k ENG cameras like the Varicam), then I could see the argument of "just throw one or two on the body and charge a couple bucks more." But if they're high-quality with lots of headroom, low-noise, etc, that makes a lot of sense to have separate modules (Good mic pre's are not cheap: http://www.mercenary.com/micpres1.html). Maybe the standard I/O is normal-quality and cheap, and the pro I/O is high-quality? And if your workflow is double-system, it's good to not have to pay for anything more than the scratch mics.

 

[David Rasberry]

As far as I know, Scarlet will be the only sub $10k camera that records full 24 bit 48kHz audio. Most cameras only record 16 bit.

A TRS mini-jack is a 3 wire connector just like an XLR. The most common configuration is unbalanced two channel stereo, but a lot of wireless mic transmitters use them for balanced phantom power connections too. Scarlet sports two mono wired balanced input jacks with phantom power, confirmed.

 

[Michael Olsen]

T
So do we have a verification on if the 1/8" TRS inputs will provide phantom power? I suppose it's possible -- I've just never seen it done before. If they do, I don't see why anyone's complaining.

From Nov 30th:

 

[joshua csehak]

Wait, didn't you just say that the mic pre's were in a separate module? Or do you mean you suggested that, and Red decided to engineer a way to keep them in the body?

 

[joshua csehak]

Of course! I forgot about the Nov. 30 announcement. Sorry.

Yeah, geez louise, what more could you want? Get an adapter cable, safety it to the body, you're golden. I mean, you're gonna want quality cables of course, but I really see it as a non-issue.

 

[Chris Kennedy]

I read somewhere that the fixed scarlet will have three ND positions, could we hopefully see this also on the 2/3 interchangeable? I mostly shoot ENG and this is practically a need, if not then with the mini primes would there be some sort of screw on ND that would work with the mini primes other than using a matte box?

 

[Rick Burnett]

I think the solution is quite easy here. Just build a little plate you can mount to your camera or rig somewhere that has 2 XLR connectors and attaches with 2 wires to the 1/8 ports. Heck, I'm sure someone could make an aftermarket product that a lot of people would buy that did that. Problem solved.

If one doesn't exist you can be guaranteed that I will make one for myself. It only makes sense to me.

 

[Philip Lipetz]

The scratch mic's are so cute!

So do we have a verification on if the 1/8" TRS inputs will provide phantom power? I suppose it's possible -- I've just never seen it done before. If they do, I don't see why anyone's complaining.

If they don't, then I guess it comes down to the quality of the mic pre's in the I/O modules.

First why worry about TRS inputs if they have phantom power? I am concerned that hanging a heavy connector and cable from such small plugs will stress both the plugs and the casing much much more than XLR inputs would. Also, will they be able to take the occasional yank that happens by unavoidable accident? Will such accidents create cracks in the cam case that cause huge repair bills? TRS plugs do not distribute the stress as well as XLR plugs. As a doc maker I worry about this more than people who will use their Scarlets on relatively controlled sets. Yes, I will use dual sound when I can but there are times when that is impossible; for example, run and gun shoots in public places that allow only single person video (a common constraint in India where I do a lot of shooting).

Second, I agree that the key is the quality of the mic preamps. I would pay for great preamps - gladly. I have not seen any comparison of mic pre amps on the cam versus on the modules. Do they even have different preamps? I don't know.

The cultural problem is that ordinarily I would not be rubbing shoulders with the people who are the RED One crowd. I would envy them and study their work but not use the same equipment. Different worlds. But now it seems as if I can use some of what I learn by watching their set work. Wonderful. The Scarlet might be a cross-over cam. But is it really? Or is that just my desire to move up in post production and image quality, not what is really being offered? I can not really tell even after haunting this forum for nearly two years, two years where I held off buying a new kit.

I know that the desire to use the Scarlet as a cross-over cam is bringing in people like me, people with a slightly different set of concerns. I appreciate the effort that people are making to integrate us into this community. Thanks. Really, thanks a lot.

 

[David Rasberry]

Wait, didn't you just say that the mic pre's were in a separate module? Or do you mean you suggested that, and Red decided to engineer a way to keep them in the body?

The mic pre's in the I/O modules are separate from the built in ones. The bus connector between modules is all digital. The pro I/O module also switches between analog and AES digital inputs on the XLR's.

 

[Lee Saxon]

Colin... Why don't you add the Pro I/O and the Brain price together, and then show me another camera within even a mile of that price that can even come close to what the Scarlet can do, and I will start actually listening to these bullshit complaints....

You don't even have to compare it to other cameras, compared the Fixed Scarlet to an Arri mattebox and Red still comes out ahead. Lots of reasonable pricing going on in the cine market!

On the other hand, part of the incredulity over module prices is your own fault (a result of your great brain prices). You offer something as sophisticated and powerful as Scarlet for a miniscule $2750, of course people are going to be surprised/disappointed that a little LCD or compact flash card cost half as much and that an SSD, an EVF, or XLR ports costs MORE.

I'm not saying that feeling is right or wrong, just that I understand where it came from. I think we tend to expect the stuff that's in the brain to be the lion's share of the cost.

 

[Jay Gannon]

First why worry about TRS inputs if they have phantom power? I am concerned that hanging a heavy connector and cable from such small plugs will stress both the plugs and the casing much much more than XLR inputs would. Also, will they be able to take the occasional yank that happens by unavoidable accident? Will such accidents create cracks in the cam case that cause huge repair bills? TRS plugs do not distribute the stress as well as XLR plugs. As a doc maker I worry about this more than people who will use their Scarlets on relatively controlled sets. Yes, I will use dual sound when I can but there are times when that is impossible; for example, run and gun shoots in public places that allow only single person video (a common constraint in India where I do a lot of shooting).

Second, I agree that the key is the quality of the mic preamps. I would pay for great preamps - gladly. I have not seen any comparison of mic pre amps on the cam versus on the modules. Do they even have different preamps? I don't know.

The cultural problem is that ordinarily I would not be rubbing shoulders with the people who are the RED One crowd. I would envy them and study their work but not use the same equipment. Different worlds. But now it seems as if I can use some of what I learn by watching their set work. Wonderful. The Scarlet might be a cross-over cam. But is it really? Or is that just my desire to move up in post production and image quality, not what is really being offered? I can not really tell even after haunting this forum for nearly two years, two years where I held off buying a new kit.

I know that the desire to use the Scarlet as a cross-over cam is bringing in people like me, people with a slightly different set of concerns. I appreciate the effort that people are making to integrate us into this community. Thanks. Really, thanks a lot.

If your shooting commercial work for profit, pay for the Pro I/O module then.

 

[Philip Lipetz]

I think the solution is quite easy here. Just build a little plate you can mount to your camera or rig somewhere that has 2 XLR connectors and attaches with 2 wires to the 1/8 ports. Heck, I'm sure someone could make an aftermarket product that a lot of people would buy that did that. Problem solved.

If one doesn't exist you can be guaranteed that I will make one for myself. It only makes sense to me.

PERFECT!!!!! Sign me up if you go to commercial production.

 

[Philip Lipetz]

If your shooting commercial work for profit, pay for the Pro I/O module then.

I film for a Church organization with a limited budget. The Pro I/O module is very expensive when compared to the base package. However, if the sound is significantly cleaner then it is worth it. Another thing that I do not know the answer to.

 

[Jay Gannon]

Yes but Scarlet+Pro I/O is about 4k cheaper than a 1080p alternative so realistically even with the Pro IO you'd still be saving them money. I work for a number or charitys/pro bono work and they all have plans to buy scarlet due to the cost savings.