Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Arri Alexa and Mysterium-X...

Status
Not open for further replies.
The R1 has a baked in WB of 5000k, its not agnostic to WB, it has a WB. So you're correcting for it anyways, just like you do in any other camera when you take it into CC. You shoot a chart and you make your correction. The different being that you have to always change it from 5000k on a Red instead of a little tweak from other cameras where you set the WB onset. Either way, you start out at one setting and you goto another in Post.
 
Grady Wilson said:
Setting white balance after acquisition is incredibly valuable. There are so many productions now that shoot quick with mixed light, LED light, lights with odd tints etc. that setting on the day now is practically impossible. It is nice to kill a tint or zero in or fix an operator error after the fact. We can all agree its better to be able to set it in post, so there should be no argument anymore.

So we move on to boot time, which the Alexa is 40 seconds. And Read Reset, which is 17 milli-seconds. What is the Epic read reset again?
Click to expand...

Well said, Grady.
 
Phil Jordan said:
Alexa has baked in WB and Redcode does not.
Alexa has 2K resolution and Epic is 5K or Red One M-X is 4.5K.
Both M-X and EPIC and Alexa have 13.5 stops of DR.
Epic has 120fps and Alexa has 60fps.
Epic weighs 5 pounds and Alexa weighs 12 pounds.
Epic is $28,000 and Alexa is $65,000 base.
Click to expand...

Just a little note, Alexa's sensor is 3.5k, which is scaled to 2k. Significant if you're comparing to Epic's sensor pixel count.
 
Dwight Tudor said:
The R1 has a baked in WB of 5000k, its not agnostic to WB, it has a WB. So you're correcting for it anyways, just like you do in any other camera when you take it into CC. You shoot a chart and you make your correction. The different being that you have to always change it from 5000k on a Red instead of a little tweak from other cameras where you set the WB onset. Either way, you start out at one setting and you goto another in Post.
Click to expand...

Dwight... all cameras have a native color, the one where they are happiest. But with RAW you have the chance to change it to whatever light source you are shooting without consequence. Color science is fundamentally based on a proper WB setting. With RAW, you can change that. Baked is... not so much.

Jim
 
From the Alexa brochure:

The look around area is 3168 x 1782. The Arri Raw output is 2880 x 1620. Calling it 3.5K is erroneous, it is 2.8K.

This is less than the Scarlet.
 
Gabe Conroy said:
Just a little note, Alexa's sensor is 3.5k, which is scaled to 2k. Significant if you're comparing to Epic's sensor pixel count.
Click to expand...

While 3.5K is the absolute sensor size, I have yet to see specs of useable of 3.5K. Help me see the light.

Jim
 
Michael has a great opportunity here at reduser to market his camera because Jim has started this thread and let it run. Jim has closed down all the DSLR threads because of prosumer line-skipping I assume. So Michael has access to all redusers to sell his product and comment about its strengths. What I hope is that he will answer the questions about Alexa. If he doesn't it just doesn't seem fair.
 
Jeff Coatney said:
When you consider that the people here on RedUser have actually bought cameras-- spending an estimated $122 million dollars for the first 7000 Red Ones, not including accessories -- I would think Arri is very interested in what Red Owners think. This community is more than a group of fans --- it's the people who plunked down real money. Arri comes here to find their customers and if they're smart, they'll pony up whatever info the people on this forum want to know if they hope to gain market share.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that he is gleaning some useful information here, but if that were his goal he could do it without posting a word and save himself a whole lot of headaches. You have to admit that folks around here haven't been shy about sharing their thoughts on Alexa without Mike having to ask.

Phil's really got it. This is targeted advertising right here. It's a lot like NAB 24/7. I wonder how many eyes read this board, and how that compares to NAB attendance figures.

I'll reiterate; I have to assume that Alexa is essentially set. A co like Arri isn't likely to rewrite ArriRaw a few weeks before the camera hits the market. But those are just my instincts.

Hey Phil, what's fair got to do with it? ;-) Anyway, we'll know all we need about Alexa soon enough. Is there a firm street date?
 
Last edited:
Dwight Tudor said:
The R1 has a baked in WB of 5000k, its not agnostic to WB, it has a WB. So you're correcting for it anyways, just like you do in any other camera when you take it into CC. You shoot a chart and you make your correction. The different being that you have to always change it from 5000k on a Red instead of a little tweak from other cameras where you set the WB onset. Either way, you start out at one setting and you goto another in Post.
Click to expand...

I thought the difference here is that if you are adjusting the white balance digitally in camera, you are performing a mathematical operation alone before writing out which is subject to quantization. Then, afterwards in post, you are going to perform additional modifications to the data, and that quantization error is going to add up with additional modifications to the data. This means, you start with the native WB (as you've used) for the Alexa sensor, you perform one white balance in camera with quantization error, then, if it's not right still in post, you perform an additional white balance, and add another set of quantization error.

With the approach RED is using, the first white balance can be your only white balance still so you aren't performing the same type of operations multiple times since it isn't written into the data. In addition, other operations in post are performed together at the same time at a higher level of precision to reduce quantization error which essentially minimizes distortion to the data. There will still be quantization error, but by working at a higher precision, you lower that TREMENDOUSLY and only encounter it at the very last step as you fit into your saved data bit depth.
 
Peter... that is too harsh. This is what we are talking about when we speak of being respectful. Tone it down or I'll delete.

Jim
 
Peter Rollins said:
You need to be careful Scott on saying things like " a Company like Arri " ARRI is a very different company today then it was 5 years ago.

Desperation and change of policy can make a company do very strange things. I like you Michael Bravin and respect what you do but there is no way ARRI would of hired someone like you 5 years ago. ARRI has changed, and we are all going to just need to deal with that, for better or worse.
Click to expand...

Peter.. Last Warning.
 
I personally own 17 Arri cameras (currently). I bought a new 35mm Arri camera and shot a commercial for Oakley in 1991 with 6 Oakley employees. I used a custom made Arri S with bottom-mounted batteries I designed for a TON of stuff. I own and shot hundreds of rolls on my SR3. I am an Arri fan. I respect what Arri has represented for almost a century. What I don't understand is the new marketing approach of Arri.

Jim
 
Last edited:
Now everyone is scared to post anything. Arri seems to have missed the boat when they decided to make a 2K camera instead of a 4K or 5K camera. I guess I may be banned for this post but it is true.
 
Jannard said:
I personally own 17 Arri cameras (currently). I bought a new 35mm Arri camera and shot a commercial for Oakley in 1991 with 6 Oakley employees. I used a custom made Arri S with bottom-mounted batteries I designed for a TON of stuff. I own and shot an SR3 for hundreds of rolls. I am an Arri fan. I respect what Arri has represented for almost a century. What I don't understand is the new marketing approach of Arri.

Jim
Click to expand...

Their public presence is not as graceful as it used to be.
Trying to be more like Red is at odds with who we know them as.

If they focusing more on being competitive than getting Alexa perfect as the expectation is set, it'll any flaws will be a huge hit to their solid reputation.
 
Phil Jordan said:
Now everyone is scared to post anything. Arri seems to have missed the boat when they decided to make a 2K camera instead of a 4K or 5K camera. I guess I may be banned for this post but it is true.
Click to expand...

The Alexa will be a great tv camera for sure but I was very disappointed they didn't do a 4k camera also. It's a great camera but in 6 months to a year when there are thousands of epics shooting 5k, I wouldn't want to be trying to pay off an Alexa.
 
Jim i have to agree with you. When I visited the ARRI booth at NAB this year one of the employees there that I have known for years told me they did not approve of the way they were presenting themselves. For the people that have been there for a very long time and created the soul of ARRI, it is hard for them to see the company turn into what it has become.

Most of the talent that made ARRI have left the company. People like Jim Elias, Eric Johnston and many others, and I know many more that are soon to leave.

This industry has changed, companies have changed, the landscape is going to be much different going forward. A landscape who's foundation has quite arguably been paved by RED.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top