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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Good enough...

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Jannard said:
And what about the future? Movies AND tv shows will be re-released on 4K in the near future... at least those shot on film or RED 4K.

"Welcome Back Kotter"...

Jim
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Which is why it makes sense to shoot 4K now for anything you want to preserve going forward. With LTO-4 at a 30 shelf life, r3d and LTO-4 is a smart, affordable and viable format to capture with.

Not everyone would adapt my mentality on this but the mentality of media and the reverance for creating images seems to be moving toward disposable (at least in reality tv, etc.) The RED systems still represent the most practical, accessable and cost effective digital motion capture available.

I also think the availiblity of RED is helping to preserve the esthetic of shooting 35mm film because it's built on a film mentality. I still treat RED as if I am shooting 35mm and that makes a difference when it comes to crewing up, lighting, etc.

Some other offerings come from a "video" mentality. You could equate this to MAC vs. PC, Vinyl vs.CD,

I see RED as Digital Negative, not "a betacam that shoots HD". There is a difference there.

David
 
KETCH ROSSI said:
Jim,

I could not agree with you more, and always stress this points even further with convincing to shoot S3D in 4K, while preserving a Monoscopic version of it, obviously 4K.


With "Welcome Back Kotter"... are you saying that the possible making of a Movie based on the series will be finally shot, and that will be shot on RED?
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"Welcome Back Kotter" was shot on a sub-par format and can't be released on anything... seemed like a good idea at the time.

Jim
 
We believe strongly that you do NOT want to bake in WB or color science. Just like with film, you can always go back and process again with better tools.

Jim
 
Billy Summers said:
1080p is good enough!
...for my iphone
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1080p sounds youtube! I think 1080p is great for web delivery downrezed to 640x360. Then it looks crisp. It's way to little for Digital acquisition for blueray or cinema. I think the Scarlet 2/3 will be perfect for projects ending up on blueray!
 
David Mullen ASC said:
You're debating the wrong person here. I'm all for more resolution and more dynamic range and getting the best picture for post and for posterity.

But many productions, especially TV ones, have a pretty strict budget and will only pay for anything beyond their immediate delivery needs if it adds ZERO to the budget -- and very few things have zero impact on budget. Yes, it's short-sighted and sad.

"Replacement for film" after all covers more than features, it covers commercials, music videos, and some high-end TV shows. The argument to master in 4K is easier to make for features, that's all, and it gets progressively harder to make with projects aimed at the small screen, particularly if they don't think they will be in syndication for decades to come.
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I wasn't disagreeing or debating, I was agreeing with you and I was commenting on the "disposable pampers" mentality and tightening budgets that we all are facing in production.

In the pennies or pixels arguement, pennies always seem to win.

David
 
Javier_Rivera said:
Hey Jim. I ran into an NYU CineTog that was down talking RED, saying the cameras are for Directors that don't trust their DP's. This person also mentioned that the cameras aren't user friendly and unless you know how to properly use a film camera, buying even a fixed scarlet would be a waste. I was puzzled only because I get most of my info about RED here. I've never touched a film camera, and I go to El Cheepo University whose best camera at the moment is a Canon GL2.
I guess my question stems from whether there is any credibility to what he stated and whether a person that isn't familiar with film is going to be dead in the water once they open the box to either their fixed or S35's.
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The DP remark is just plain stupid.

As far as ease of use, Red is easier than a film camera, because you can see what you are actually acquiring. It requires more skill than a video camera with auto focus and exposure, but that's not a big hurdle. Good video shooters only use those features as reference. And I think the Scarlet fixed will have those features as well.
 
Jannard said:
We believe strongly that you do NOT want to bake in WB or color science. Just like with film, you can always go back and process again with better tools.

Jim
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Okay so your point was inn the factor of original acquisition of the Show, and not of the talk about the making of a Movie form the Series..

This makes strong points on your argument of 1080P not been good enough even more as the series has been re-ran several times, but now with HD broadcast, UHmm..

So the MOral is very simple to understand, Record with the best available Resolution and Future Proof your Material as much as allowed by current technology!

It sure make sense to me!!
 
2nd half of this year. ..CHRISTIE 4K Projectors begin shipping in 2010

http://www.dcinematoday.com/dc/PR.aspx?newsID=1470

its a start. But what David said is true... some productions dont care. but while it may be suicide for our company, we just refuse to work with shows like that. That's our choice. Time will tell if its a good one, but we want people thinking about resolution when outputting for today. We educate when we can, and our customers are very happy. We would never let a client take 2 stops away from any DP working with us, that's all I know, sorry to hear that happens even to David Mullen.

Back to topic, if some other folks can get those TI 4K DLP chips into a home size form factor...or indie theaters could afford them. Game over.

i.e. I say go old school, turn the M-X sensor into an M-X projector.
 
Jannard said:
"Welcome Back Kotter" was shot on a sub-par format and can't be released on anything... seemed like a good idea at the time.
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And yet you can go to any Best Buy and get it on DVD. Multiple seasons of it.

Good material will last regardless of whether or not it was shot in the latest and greatest format. And while I like the idea of shooting on "oversampled" formats as much as anyone, it's not the determining factor as to whether a show can be profitable or stand the test of time. That's far more dependent on the writing, acting, direction, and timelessness of the stories being told than it is the origination format. Ever tune in to NPR and catch 70+ year old Jack Benny radio shows being played? Ever watch SCTV shows from 1982 on DVD and still laugh at them? Just as HD isn't a requirement for material to still be vital today, I seriously doubt that 4K will be a requirement, at least in my lifetime. That's not to say there's no value to shooting in a higher resolution format, of course there is, and any time it's financially and practically feasible, it should be done that way. But I really disagree that profitability, now or in the future, is dependent on it.
 
Javier_Rivera said:
Hey Jim. I ran into an NYU CineTog that was down talking RED, saying the cameras are for Directors that don't trust their DP's. This person also mentioned that the cameras aren't user friendly and unless you know how to properly use a film camera, buying even a fixed scarlet would be a waste. I was puzzled only because I get most of my info about RED here. I've never touched a film camera, and I go to El Cheepo University whose best camera at the moment is a Canon GL2.
I guess my question stems from whether there is any credibility to what he stated and whether a person that isn't familiar with film is going to be dead in the water once they open the box to either their fixed or S35's.
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You won't be dead in the water if you educate yourself by reading up on the internet, and finding productions that are looking for trainees. If you don't do any pre-education of yourself chances are if you have a fresh out of the box S35 or 2/3 scarlet you will be able to find plenty of camera-friendly cinematographers on craigslist (or reduser) who will be down just to test the camera with you. Just get theft, damage, and fraud insurance on your new baby so you don't end up getting mugged.
 
Jannard said:
We believe strongly that you do NOT want to bake in WB or color science. Just like with film, you can always go back and process again with better tools.

Jim
Click to expand...


Desire for greatness doesn't mean you cant sell a lot of RAW 2k modules designed for 1080 delivery

Thats what I may be able to afford and the non baking is critical to me

Im baffled that expensive motion cameras bake having been shooting raw stills for 10 years

S
 
Boffins at the BBC stated in early 2000 that large screen HDTVs would not take off in the UK as in the average UK home there is only so much space between the chimney breast and the wall for the "box in the corner"


The home owner has rearranged their living rooms to accomidate larger HD screens and new houses incorporate them into design.
However most of the time audience still sit too far away to get the most resolution available from the experence.

In my view their is scope for much larger screens in some homes, enabling a more ideal audience-to-screen viewing distance.

So 3k or 4k pixel transmission fits into this notion and using a 5k pixel camera for origination would be ideal.

If we can transmit and recieve 3d at 1920x1080 we can transmit and recieve 4k in 2d.


I thought the first imacs were cool. Now I sit in front of mac with a screen twice the size. Plenty of room on my desktop or the wall behind it for a 4k 40 inch screen, when viewed from a meter, would be terriffic!


Like NHK and the UltraHD consortium 7K format, Jim is on the right track!




Mike Brennan
 
Who cares what a bunch of bean counters in Hollywood think? The possibilities that the new technology bring are as limitless as they are exciting. Imagine what Time Square is going to look like in a few years (assuming no silly arse blows it up!).

The naysayers will fall into line when they realize how far they are falling behind what the rest of us are producing.
 
M Most said:
And yet you can go to any Best Buy and get it on DVD. Multiple seasons of it.

Good material will last regardless of whether or not it was shot in the latest and greatest format. And while I like the idea of shooting on "oversampled" formats as much as anyone, it's not the determining factor as to whether a show can be profitable or stand the test of time. That's far more dependent on the writing, acting, direction, and timelessness of the stories being told than it is the origination format. Ever tune in to NPR and catch 70+ year old Jack Benny radio shows being played? Ever watch SCTV shows from 1982 on DVD and still laugh at them? Just as HD isn't a requirement for material to still be vital today, I seriously doubt that 4K will be a requirement, at least in my lifetime. That's not to say there's no value to shooting in a higher resolution format, of course there is, and any time it's financially and practically feasible, it should be done that way. But I really disagree that profitability, now or in the future, is dependent on it.
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I've watched some Kotter in my time. Might even buy a Blu-Ray if there were one... Barbarino! So that's one sale they lost. How many more?

I get your point. But Jim's is valid.
 
Shoot at the highest resolution available, edit, display.

Shoot 4k & display 4K!

When has the playing field been more level for Indy producers?

Long vacations are overrated anyway!

Dave
 
4k isn't good enough for us even right now. We have been extremely successful in convincing our clients that pulling stills from the motion we shoot for them saves them a ton of money. All it takes is keeping a couple gorgeous 50mb TIFFs on our iPads and Macbook Pros. When clients see it for themselves they suddenly get it. They get high quality stills and don't have to bring in a separate photographer. 4k is at the very low end of what is acceptable for stills, though. 5k will be better and 6k will be great.
 
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