Zeiss standard speed difference.

[Jesper Dalgaad]

Hi,

I have noticed different versions of the standard speed.
Can anyone teach me more about this?
I know that the rings on the mk1 and mk2 are different but there is also another set in a different (older) housing that is half the price as the mk1 and mk2 housing.

Help me understand the difference.

I’ve attached photos.

All the best

 

[Nick Morrison]

MK1 are Arri Bayonet, are are more like stills lenses. They are tiny.

What you have a photo of there is a "cinevized" set, so they have 80OD fronts on them, and focus gears.

But the actual lenses are tiny. And some of them have irises on the front threads.

In short, they are no where near as practical as MKII and MKIII's, that are proper Arri lenses with PL mounts, etc (ie same housing styles as Super Speeds, etc).

That's why MK1s are so cheap. The optics are *almost* the same, but a lot of MKI's have the older, single coatings so can flare a lot.

In general, the MKII's are way more practical, but obviously cost a lot more - and for good reason. They are REAL cinema lenses.

The MKIs are great old optics, but are way less practical/useful on a real shoot.

 

[RobMNeilson]

I had a set of the MKI's in the past, and the focus ring is literally against the PL mount of the camera, which makes them a bit tough to work with in some camera rigging situations.

 

[Jesper Dalgaad]

Okay cool. Thanks.

But in the newer more practical cinema housing there is also two versions? a mk1 and mk2.
I’ve heard the way to tell the difference is on the iris and focus ring, but what is the actual difference in mechanics, optics and coating?

 

[Nick Morrison]

Okay cool. Thanks.

But in the newer more practical cinema housing there is also two versions? a mk1 and mk2.
I’ve heard the way to tell the difference is on the iris and focus ring, but what is the actual difference in mechanics, optics and coating?

Almost.

The two properly housed versions are referred to as Standard Speeds MKII and MKIII - they are basically baby Ultra Primes. And once you get to MKII and MKIII they also have way more lens choices. There's a 14, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32, 40, 50, 85, 100, 135 and 180. These are real lenses. Used on TONS of features, shows, etc. They were the workhorses of the 80s, etc.

The MKIs are just toys by comparison - they only have the 16, 24, 32, 50 and 85, and they are just really small and impractical. They were designed to work "inside" a blimp I believe? A system where the noise of the camera was dampened so they could shoot sound? So they were tiny by design. But again, totally impractical. Even a vintage stills lens (say a Contax or Leica) is functionally way easier to use and mod. The MKIs are SO SMALL they need special gears made for them, etc. They cost us a fortune to mod (we have the 16 and 24), and would prob never do again. Cool lenses though. I mean they LOOK really cool, and are crazy sharp.

Also one knock on ALL Standard Primes is the can have very small image circles. I mean LESS than Super 35. They were desgned for Academy.

The 16, 20, 24 and 32 all are lenses to be worried about - the 28 is as gem, was one of the last lenses made for Standards, and has a huge image circle (this design was literally used and tweaked with the Ultraprimes, that's how good it is). Then the 50's and up are all fine, they all almost or entirely cover FF (36x24).

 

[Alec Eriksson]

In case anyone like myself comes along and finds this thread, I figure I should add some unofficial information I've uncovered as I've purchased 5 of these lenses from a variety of locations.

I believe there's an unofficial Mk3 build of the Standard Speeds, similar to how there was a Mk3 Super Speed, that had a couple of distinct features that aren't make/break by any means but something to keep in mind when doing your shopping. As far as I can tell, the Mk3 Standard Speeds include:

1. Mk3 labeling says "Lens Made in Germany", while Mk2 says "Lens Made in West Germany"
2. Mk3 adds a second set of aperture ring markings to the dumb side with a small filled triangle indicator, while Mk2 is a small line, Op side only
3. Mk3 aperture ring uses 0.8 pitch teeth same as the focus ring, while Mk2 has much shallower teeth
4. Mk3 have a tiny "G" under the word "meter" while Mk2 have a "D". No idea what this means though!

As far as coatings and mechanics and so on, this is where my knowledge runs out. My serial numbers for the Mk2's are all in the 68xxxxx range, while my Mk3 is 71xxxxx. The lenses go up to 8xxxxxx so I would assume all of those are Mk3. Not sure where the switchover is though because apparently Zeiss had factories in multiple German locations.

Unrelated to Mk2 vs Mk3, and only because I haven't seen it written anywhere, these lenses do grow in length as you focus. Some of them (most of them), for instance the 32mm, change about 3mm (yes, mm) total from one end of the focus to the other. Below 85mm it seems negligible but it's there. Others, like the 85mm, have about 25mm (1 inch) of growth and I imagine the longer focal lengths follow this trend although I can't test because I only own the 85mm. Interestingly, the focus ring seems to sit right in the middle of the growth (as in, the lens extends fore and aft of the gear equally). This could be an issue with some narrow follow focus gears, but probably pretty easily solvable. Matte boxes are also a consideration since you'll want something fairly lightweight and/or with 15mm support that you leave loose so the box can slide forwards/backwards. It's not the end of the world, but they also lack filter threads on the front. This is typical of old cinema glass and to be assumed but I figured I'd mention it.

I'll add more if I find anything else but I didn't want to start a new thread when there's already a fair amount of information in here.

 

[Anton Shavlik]

I was at an Arri event and asked what the letters under the focus scale mean. It's apparently the batch of glass the optics came from. Can be one of several letters or double letters eg. HH or FF.