Wish list. How do you think Nikon and RED’s hybrid camera will be?

[fgonz031]

Leave your hypotheses here;

 

[M Harvey]

I’d be excited for good viewfinder options—something affordable and up to the task of solo operating (which means both decent image quality and flexibility).

Improved AF will be nice (though I don’t use it much now, I enjoyed leaving a B-cam unattended on a recent interview shoot with a Sony FX6). I’m neutral on stuff like the mirrorless mount, so long as they don’t make it more difficult to adapt to different legacy mounts like PL and…<gulp>…EF. I’m not looking to adapt current Canon lenses, but many legacy still lenses are commonly adapted to EF!

 

[Zack Birlew]

I can see Nikon Z of course being the mount of choice, this alone will be the biggest change for many. A jump in resolution wouldn't be bad but a little point or two above 8K at minimum would make sense as well for scaling. I'm resorting to an older theory of a bigger camera being in the mix, not like the XL versions but more like the Blackmagic Pockets and URSA lines, as there is a definite need for a more all-in-one camera and perhaps that will be the higher spec model to make up for the size. I think pricing will be adjusted down unless the specs call for massive pricing as Nikon will have a lot to do with backing up manufacturing so that should streamline a lot of costs.

My biggest thought on all of this, though I can't say for certain, is that now that global shutter is on all the cameras, I'm not sure there's a need for Komodo. I think we've run into the problem I've mentioned before where 6K is a stepping stone to 8K and now that the Raptors have global shutter, that takes away the specialty of Komodo. If the next step is an 8K Komodo 2 then unless we separate the lines by S35 vs. Full Frame sensor sizes, an 8K Komodo will eat the sales of the Raptor and Rhino. So, why not cut out Komodo and hammer down the cost of the global shutter Raptor that everyone would want anyways? The Nikon Z mirrorless line would take the Komodo's place as the sub-$10K option so when you want to step up to a global shutter cinema camera then you pay a little (or a lot) more for the Raptor. Then, of course, the Nikon Z series is the sticking point because with N-RAW, probably soon to be REDCODE or a variant, you very much already have a full frame competitor for Raptor as it is in the Z8 and Z9 short of high speed frame rates.

The contrary thought to that is that the Nikon Z series may not be the right competitor for a Sony FX or Canon C series camera so then the Komodo could still make more sense to evolve under Nikon for broadcast reasons but making it 8K and full frame to compete in the sub-$10K market is a big ask because, again, why go for Raptor?

This is the confounding issue as whatever comes next will either have to blow the specs out for whatever replaces Raptor, like a 12K or 16K sensor, or the lines will have to face warring with each other as the Komodo will have to be upgraded with all the new 6K and 8K cameras coming out within the next year or two. A defined strategy is key for what comes next and if RED is really left to its own devices then it can compete with itself or with Nikon as it sees fit but in terms of business it really has to weigh the risk of confusing customers as Nikon's Z series has already thrown the gauntlet down with internal RAW recording and cinema-grade full frame video in the Z8 and Z9 and now its own RAW 6K S35 video features in the Z6 and there's no going back.

 

[Brian Timmons]

You raise interesting points Zack.

There is an increasing bit of overlap between the Z series cameras and lower end RED cameras like Komodo but I do not see Z series models as an eventual substitute or taking over as the cinema option in the RED/Nikon lineup.

Z cameras are built for photography and that is what they do best.
REDs are built for cinema and that is what they do best.

The ergonomics of a still camera was never particularly great for cinema (rigging, handholding, accessorizing, etc) and that body shape does not lend itself well to cooling which has been a traditional problem with still cameras crossing over into the film/video world.

Komodo (among other RED bodies) is already designed quite well for the rigors of film production. To me the small box shape was the last step in refining that design.

Komodo is also needed in RED’s lineup.
For the range of buyers that RED appeals to (high end rental, owner ops, to aspiring filmmakers) they need a strong lower end utility/gateway camera and Komodo is that model.
Komodo is like the low end Macbbok Pro or mac mini of the RED lineup and like those computer models the highest selling and perhaps most talked about in the ecosystem.

For now I think 8k/6K is the "higher end" sweet spot for the industry and it works very well for meeting most filmmaking challenges.
8K is great but I don't consider it a make or break feature at all and for some cameras the inclusion of it may have created more problems than what it's worth.
Also worth noting that one of the most popular high end cinema cameras out now tops out at 4.5K and is S35 which is neither higher resolution (relatively speaking) nor larger format.

I can see Nikon/RED considering a larger format cinema camera at some point down the line based on a RED body and sensor and using Nikon’s optics, AF, and processing. I think I remember Jarred once mentioning that the lack of lenses was the stumbling block for a larger Medium Format style sensor and that the next step of cinema lenses would have integrated motors like the Panavision Primo 70 lenses released with the original Millennium DXL camera (which was based on RED Monstro).
If Nikon is already making big investments in lenses, this could be the type of thing in development.
I suppose a pipe dream would be Nikon, MRMC (also a Nikon company), and RED ultimately developing a new cinema ecosystem perhaps with a greater partnership with Panavision (already in current partnership with RED) but lets not get ahead of ourselves.
That would likely take time in terms of R&D and a healthier film industry to take off.

We’ll see.

For the immediate future,
some of the features that would make my life easier are more software(firmware) related.
Better AF for existing cameras and perhaps an IPP3 Raw update would be nice.

User pages or 3K S 16 on Komodo?
Other interface or UI enhancements?

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[TYLER STOOKSBURY]

I've been thinking about this.

If nikon were to make their take on a FX3 style camera with a RED sensor that's around $4000, i think they will grab the attention of many, many people. I would buy one immediately for gimbal work or when I need to travel light. It would be great to have something that size, that fits into the RED ecosystem.

 

[Les Hillis]

I think it's an interesting idea.

Looking at the FX3, I can imagine a sub-Komodo-level hybrid cross-over RED/Nikon camera.

It would primarily be a motion-capture-oriented camera, with good enough sensor and motion capturing capabilities to be a legitimate cine and stills quality camera, but with a more boxy, FX3-like, stills-camera form-factor

Depending on power, processing, cooling, in/out requirements, it could keep a more stills-camera form-factor or even be expanded out to somewhere between the Komodo and the FX3 in size.

They could even go so far as to make it more RED-like and modular like the RED DSMC system was. Where, for example, the whole side-grip/battery/media area and the back viewfinder could be detachable/modular units, allowing separate modules of the camera to be attached that transform the camera into more of a box-style Komodo-like cine-camera.

That same design approach could also be applied to the future higher-end RED cameras.

With the advances in technology that have taken place since RED's inception, and taking into consideration the difference between the RED and Nikon manufacturing capabilities, I think there's still potential there for RED to push the limits (on both the higher and lower ends) of what digital cine-cameras can be, just like they did with the RED One and DSMC1/2/3.

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

Red have a sensor facility. Nikon will never have to get Sony's sensors again if they increase its size to Nikon needs.
I think the differences between Red and Nikon in the years to comes will probably be the shape of the camera brain.
The two companies are too similar, it's different than MRMC. They have the means to have a complete logic line up.
Don't loose Red naming. I like real names, not numbers. I don't want the Raptor to become "Z12"

I'm not sure it's even possible, I would want to see Nikon/Red merge sensor techs, Global shutter stacked sensor for example.
Nikon Focus tech Exspeed on all Reds.
I'd also want to see Deep learning Focus, exposure, denoise tools inside a Red.
I'd also want lens profile inside Red camera, at least for DSLR lenses.
Tropicalization as well maybe ?

About modularity, it's something Red has completly forgotten while Arri is now quite modular with the Alexa 35. What a twist.
But we don't really need full compatibily. I just loved the Teradek module, and the RTmotion sidekick. I miss them dearly on my Komodo.

I would like to see color science choices on both side in camera. I want Red on Nikons, and Nikons on Red, to be able to match them all.

I also want Red to keep Komodo-OG-like cameras for each generations, a small camera that doesnt consume batteries, with lesser specs but totally manageable.

 

[M Harvey]

Depending on power, processing, cooling, in/out requirements, it could keep a more stills-camera form-factor or even be expanded out to somewhere between the Komodo and the FX3 in size.

They could even go so far as to make it more RED-like and modular like the RED DSMC system was. Where, for example, the whole side-grip/battery/media area and the back viewfinder could be detachable/modular units, allowing separate modules of the camera to be attached that transform the camera into more of a box-style Komodo-like cine-camera.

This gives me the image of a Pentax/Mamiya 645: the Komodo box, detachable Nikon handgrip and EVF, compact Nikon RF lenses...

 

[chambeshi]

Recent snippet on Nikon's statements about improving the video in existing higher end Z cameras

Nikon President Believes RED Acquisition Will Increase Market Share

Nikon believes improved video performance will result in greater market share.

petapixel.com

 

[Josh Rainey]

I'm sure they'll just do what they do, but Raptor-x sensor in a Komodo body would make me happy. Internal ND if possible.

That Mamiya style is perfect for a small video form factor, and already possible with the Komodo. A folder out/flip around top screen could be nice, facing up while stowed.

 

[Brian Timmons]

Recent snippet on Nikon's statements about improving the video in existing higher end Z cameras

Nikon President Believes RED Acquisition Will Increase Market Share

Nikon believes improved video performance will result in greater market share.

petapixel.com

Interesting article.
I can already see a potential conflict between Nikon Z and the lower end RED line like Komodo and Komodo X where they might start going after the same market.
Perhaps this is not unlike what Canon or Sony are already dealing with between their mirrorless line and their low end cinema/video cameras but the lines might be slightly blurred more considering the Z cameras are actually pretty advanced regarding the codecs offered.

I do think the form factors and the user expectations between RED and Nikon Z might be enough to make the distinctions but the worlds are colliding in that area.

I also think a market of interest for some camera companies is the "creator market" which is arguably covers a sub $6000 and below price point.

I would be fine if RED remained the cinema line in as far as Nikon is concerned but I also understand that the cinema market and industry as we know is definitely changing and products have to adapt to those changes.

Regarding updates to body design, it would be interesting if a future Komodo can feature an articulating screen of sorts but if the design changes the location of the monitor or adds weight I would be against it. Whatever they put as a monitor will likely still be used as a secondary display and not a primary monitor.

Given the size of existing lenses and potential accessories and gak, I honestly think Komodo and KX are small enough.

A smaller lower end camera (smaller and lower end than Komodo) would be very interesting though.
I think the elements already exist for this to be created and executed quite well particularly with the current integration RED cameras have with smart phones
which is already ubiquitous.

I will say if RED could make an extremely lightweight camera with raw integrated (lens built in) camera that could capture footage like below they would really cement their position in the nature/natural history area Among other areas.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[chambeshi]

What RED Might Provide Nikon | Thom Hogan

What does Nikon really get from RED short term?

www.zsystemuser.com

 

[Brian Timmons]

What RED Might Provide Nikon | Thom Hogan

What does Nikon really get from RED short term?

www.zsystemuser.com

Interesting article but I have to admit my question is what is Nikon doing for advancing RED cameras.
What intent do they have in pushing filmmaking tools to the next level?

Making Z series cameras with some RED features is nice but I don’t think it’s going to make a particularly good cinema camera
one will frequently use on sets with crews, rigs, gak, etc.

I understand that the above articles are from Z series forums thus the emphasis on Nikon.

I think cross pollination between them where it makes sense is a start.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Phil Holland]

What intent do they have in pushing filmmaking tools to the next level?

A recent interview with Muneaki Tokunari, President of Nikon :

INTERVIEW: Nikon Aiming to Expand Camera Market Share

Tokyo, July 22 (Jiji Press)--Japan's Nikon Corp. aims to expand its market share for cameras by utilizing the …

www.nippon.com

I have spoken to Nikon multiple times since this has transpired with a general great sense of excitement. It's clear to me there's a change in attitude and ambition as of late with the company and they have tremendous capabilities.

I think we'll see much more interesting Nikon mirrorless and potentially hybrid cameras come out of this with some RED technology swimming in there. I also think we'll see more powerful hardware from RED on the motion picture production camera side of things due to Nikon's manufacturing prowess and capabilities.

Nikon has also made a rather significant investment in building a new state of the art lens manufacturing building, probably completed in 2027. So not a tomorrow sort of thing. They are also building a new headquarters now.

From my perspective, outside of some pretty savvy camera and lens design in recent years, suddenly it appears Nikon has awakened and is reinvesting into their future in a variety of areas.

The cross pollination aspect is I'm certain going to be a balance of some shared technologies, but I think there's going to be a bigger effort to push newer hardware for both companies into places beyond their current state. Which, as of 2024, is actually in a really amazing place considering the rest of the market and competition. Banner years recently when looked at from a wide lens.

 

[fgonz031]

I can see Nikon Z of course being the mount of choice, this alone will be the biggest change for many. A jump in resolution wouldn't be bad but a little point or two above 8K at minimum would make sense as well for scaling. I'm resorting to an older theory of a bigger camera being in the mix, not like the XL versions but more like the Blackmagic Pockets and URSA lines, as there is a definite need for a more all-in-one camera and perhaps that will be the higher spec model to make up for the size. I think pricing will be adjusted down unless the specs call for massive pricing as Nikon will have a lot to do with backing up manufacturing so that should streamline a lot of costs.

My biggest thought on all of this, though I can't say for certain, is that now that global shutter is on all the cameras, I'm not sure there's a need for Komodo. I think we've run into the problem I've mentioned before where 6K is a stepping stone to 8K and now that the Raptors have global shutter, that takes away the specialty of Komodo. If the next step is an 8K Komodo 2 then unless we separate the lines by S35 vs. Full Frame sensor sizes, an 8K Komodo will eat the sales of the Raptor and Rhino. So, why not cut out Komodo and hammer down the cost of the global shutter Raptor that everyone would want anyways? The Nikon Z mirrorless line would take the Komodo's place as the sub-$10K option so when you want to step up to a global shutter cinema camera then you pay a little (or a lot) more for the Raptor. Then, of course, the Nikon Z series is the sticking point because with N-RAW, probably soon to be REDCODE or a variant, you very much already have a full frame competitor for Raptor as it is in the Z8 and Z9 short of high speed frame rates.

The contrary thought to that is that the Nikon Z series may not be the right competitor for a Sony FX or Canon C series camera so then the Komodo could still make more sense to evolve under Nikon for broadcast reasons but making it 8K and full frame to compete in the sub-$10K market is a big ask because, again, why go for Raptor?

This is the confounding issue as whatever comes next will either have to blow the specs out for whatever replaces Raptor, like a 12K or 16K sensor, or the lines will have to face warring with each other as the Komodo will have to be upgraded with all the new 6K and 8K cameras coming out within the next year or two. A defined strategy is key for what comes next and if RED is really left to its own devices then it can compete with itself or with Nikon as it sees fit but in terms of business it really has to weigh the risk of confusing customers as Nikon's Z series has already thrown the gauntlet down with internal RAW recording and cinema-grade full frame video in the Z8 and Z9 and now its own RAW 6K S35 video features in the Z6 and there's no going back.

Hi, Zack, nice to meet you.
You think that RED together with Nikon are already developing sensors of 12K and 16K and when you think they will be new cameras with these sensors.

 

[Zack Birlew]

Hi, Zack, nice to meet you.
You think that RED together with Nikon are already developing sensors of 12K and 16K and when you think they will be new cameras with these sensors.

I would say that Nikon and RED above all others would be the ones to go beyond 8K first to follow Blackmagic Design's lead. The medium format game would also be interesting as more and more productions seem to be going after the Alexa 65 for their shows and movies lately. I can't say when, for all we know there's something in the works already but with Blackmagic Design busting out the door with full frame 12K and medium format 17K, I would say that whatever DSMC4 will be could be pretty interesting.

 

[fgonz031]

I would say that Nikon and RED above all others would be the ones to go beyond 8K first to follow Blackmagic Design's lead. The medium format game would also be interesting as more and more productions seem to be going after the Alexa 65 for their shows and movies lately. I can't say when, for all we know there's something in the works already but with Blackmagic Design busting out the door with full frame 12K and medium format 17K, I would say that whatever DSMC4 will be could be pretty interesting.

I think the DSMC4 is already in development and another one that may be a surprise, besides in a patent of RED video resolutions up to 20K and more beyond are contained, it’s only a matter of time. Don’t you think, Zack?

 

[chambeshi]

Most interesting discussion about the future of higher end video....
Somewhat off topic, but here is a recent interview with Nikon's President, Muneaki Tokunari
Nikon appears to be strengthening it's relationships with US industries (Intel) and R&D (NASA). He mentions the massive investment into their modern optical factory.

Bloomberg Interview Nikon

 

[Brian Timmons]

Most interesting discussion about the future of higher end video....
Somewhat off topic, but here is a recent interview with Nikon's President, Muneaki Tokunari
Nikon appears to be strengthening it's relationships with US industries (Intel) and R&D (NASA). He mentions the massive investment into their modern optical factory.

Bloomberg Interview Nikon

Funny even Nikon's President occasionally pronounces "Nikon" like an American.
Nikon seems to be on a bit of a press tour lately.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[chambeshi]

Nikon is Ready to Develop a Cinema Camera - Y.M.Cinema Magazine

Nikon is ready to expand its market share by entering the cinema world by high-end camera developed from RED Digital Cinema acquisition.

ymcinema.com