Why is the DSMC3 RED TOUCH nearly $3,000?

[Stephen Ford]

I'm confused, does it cure cancer or write movies? Why is it 3-5x more expensive than other monitors?

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Probably because it's proprietary. Mass-manufactured monitors cost less since they're produced in mass, but then again, other monitors don't cost much less than it anyway. Another thing to consider is the cost of calibration. You get this as fine-tuned for the Red camera, meaning critical viewing is an essential part.

When it comes to the highest spec stuff I usually think you need to compare it to industries more than consumer markets. In a factory, a small machine part could cost as much as $20K because it's specially made for that purpose, it's not meant to sell in the millions.

Same with special camera rigs. Yes, you have DJI selling gimbals with motion control for $1000, but a studio setup motion control that's specifically made to work with such application, including control through Maya and other software, could cost as much as $1 million.

It all depends on what your needs are. Side-gear for Red has usually been collectively more costly than the camera brains.

 

[Andrew Reese]

So it looks like Small HD is making the new RED monitor.. Interesting it's about 1.5X the price of their regular Cine 7, which looks oddly similar except without the RED logo stamped on it.

I personally am not fond of the new mounting and connection system on the DSCM3 monitor and the need for that tiny little cable all the time and the fact that to move the monitor onto a gimbal or steadicam it appears that the cable will still have to be coupled to the mounting plate "on top of the V-Raptor" I assume. I still can't even figure out if the cable is detachable with a longer option available or If RED will be making a new mounting plate specific for gimbal use. Has anyone even addressed relocation of that monitor to something like a gimbal yet? If the monitor gets power from the ports on top of Komodo/V-Raptor then how will it be powered when mounted on a gimbal if the plate/cable are not removable? What will the monitor mount to on the gimbal if it has to mount to the plate as shown on top of V-Raptor? Still trying to figure this out...

So far, I have been very happy with DSMC2 monitors despite their lack of brightness. The wireless attachment of the DSCM2 7" monitor or the 4.7" with the Wooden Camera quick release bracket and the use of lemo cables I really liked and personally am not fond of the non-proprietary Small HD or Atomos SDI monitors I use with my Komodo and I felt like it was a step back with all the 12G SDI issues and lack of quick release mounting. I have been using a Smallrig quick release monitor mounting plate with my Komodo that does have tilt functionality and I can quickly detach for gimbal use from a nato rail, but it still feels like a prosumer solution and not a professional solution compared to a DSCM2 monitor that can quickly adapt on and off the camera and be attached to the camera in several different positions or be placed on gimbals within seconds utilizing lemo cables like on my Gemini.

Truth is, I still find the DSCM2 7" to be the best form factor of any monitor made to date by any camera manufacturer, except for its lack of brightness and weak ball head in the mounting system. To me the DSMC3 monitor is not the greatest form factor and offers not much more than an Atomos or Small HD... I really liked that RED used to make their own accessories albeit at a higher price (i.e. mini-mags, monitors, interchangeable mounts, rigging and mounting accessories, etc.) and I understand it wasn't the best business model for them in terms of R&D/Prodduction cost vs. total number of sales but I am going to be honest here.... The further RED get's away from making modular cameras with interchangeable proprietary accessories that provide options on set and keeps focusing just on camera bodies and increased sales the more I lose interest. It was the modularity and opportunities to build my camera up or down with various mounts, modules, etc. and the high quality proprietary accessories that made RED stand out over all the other camera manufactures who just build camera bodies and don't care about how you package the entire kit together into a functional production rig. I personally choose to use RED over Alexa purely because of the form factor and modularity for gimbal work and being able to adapt the camera to several different use cases quickly (i.e. car mount, top-down, gimbal, sticks, drone, handheld, shoulder rig). The further away RED get's from modularity and form factor and starts to rely heavier on 3rd party manufactures to make their gear, the more I see less advantage to RED over other competitors who also "just make camera bodies".

Who asked for 8K/120fps anyway? I feel like there is a very long list of things we have been asking for that still haven't been delivered that are needed on an "every-day money making production", while meanwhile we are now starting to take features away that made RED special from the get-go. Still love RED but V-Raptor just doesn't feel that special to me over a DSCM2 Monstro and I really feel bad for the people that paid $64k for that brain just a few years ago...

Meanwhile Alexa mini an almost 7-year old camera is still going strong and pulling damn near the same rental rate and used re-sale rate since its inception. My biggest question I leave you with this post is RED going to release a new camera every 1-2 years now like Canon and Sony and should I say Apple?

I fully understand opportunity cost in R&D, but I am a little confused about the direction RED is heading down. I know I am not alone with these thoughts either outside of all the fan-boy love.

 

[Luka Sanader]

I remember when i got 7" Touch for 3500$ and it was by far worst under performer of all the available options out there. this 3000$ SmalleHD is 1.5x times more expensive then Cine7 but at least i have an option not to buy it, something that didnt exist back then. Finally I dont think that Red have even interest to sale them and i think its priced in a way to limit the volume. Lets see the EVF options for Reptor

 

[Clovis Libert]

it probably cost that much because it has a decent touch responsive, unlike the usual RED monitors, one of the benefit of working with smallhd

 

[Andrew Reese]

it probably cost that much because it has a decent touch responsive, unlike the usual RED monitors, one of the benefit of working with smallhd

I have had very little if any lag on Monstro and Gemini running latest firmware and the 7" or 4.7" touch or sidekick. I honestly never understood why so many complain about UI lag on DSCM2. I have either used or owned many of Sony cameras (FS5, FS7, FX6, FX9) and to me they lag just as much as my DSMC2 if not more and they definitely have some hiccups in terms of menu orientation and placement. Same goes for some of the Canon's cinema cameras I have used. The only camera I have used in my experiences that had very immediate responses in UI was Alexa and to me that wasn't even that fast and was truly negligible over DSMC2 and definitely not a reason to buy one camera over the other.

Never have I ever missed a shot because my UI on my DSMC2 cameras were not fast enough and I think it's funny that people market Komodo and now Raptor's slight improvements in UI as a "real reason to buy the camera over DSMC2". Maybe start-up time improved a little over DSCM2 and we now have a dedicated "on-off button", but by no means are we anywhere close to the start-up time of a Sony/Canon or UI improvements that truly save time on set or help you catch a shot you would have previously missed.

Also, from my experience the SmallHD touch integration really is no better than responsiveness of DSCM2. My Gemini was slower when using the SmallHD touch integration vs. a DSCM2 sidekick or monitor and even my Komodo was also less responsive when using the SmallHD with integrated touch over using my Atomos Shinobi SDI and just using the integrated controls on the Komodo body. Furthermore, at least on Komodo when using the EXT port for touch capability on the SmallHD monitors you actually reduce your ability to use the EXT breakout for timecode, follow focus ctrl, etc. and you would need to buy a breakout box. This again takes features away instead of adding them.

The fact that the DSMC2 series monitors were thin and a nice form factor, did not need an SDI connection, could mount to the camera in several positions, and could utilize lemo for rigging connections, to me makes it highly superior to any other monitor made to date. I am just the type of guy that likes to be able to add or remove accessories as quickly as possible without tons of cables running everywhere. It is just a part of my workflow on smaller productions or travel jobs where I don't have an AC by my side to help with changing set-up's. Currently I can go from gimbal, shoulder, hand-held or sticks on DSMC2 literally in less than 1 minute. The last thing I want is a client or director standing there waiting for 15 minutes so I can make a set-up change while all the actors impatiently run-off set during the wait to get coffee. Not many other cameras can change shape as easily as DSCM2 and especially not with large lenses and follow focus, etc......Modularity was super important for me with a smaller crew and a huge reason why I chose and still choose DSCM2.

 

[George Nathanson]

I can confirm the Portkeys BM5-WR works wirelessly to control the Raptor. I'ts not instantaneous but it isn't with Komodo (which it is designed for) either. So far it looks like FPS, Shutter, ISO, Iris and most importantly R/S work. It appears as though focus will work when red implements "custom" focus box location. So I'm pretty stoked about this! If you do try it out make sure to name your wifi ssid Komodo* and 2.4Ghz as the PK wont see anything else (stupid PK bug) Also I have inquired with small HD if there will be a kit for Raptor control via USB or EXT.... currently have DSMC2 control via Cine7 and love it.

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[Ahmed Bouazzaoui]

Yes. The portkeys will work with the V-Raptor. I talked with Portkeys Rep like 10 days ago and he confirmed that are working on 7înch Monitor for the Raptor.

 

[Tracy Lee]

clear now