What are we doing wrong?

[Jairo_Acosta]

Hi!

First I would like to apologize for posting last week without a proper user name. I was in such a rush that I didn't stop to read the forum rules.

Now the question: I´ve been in a shooting with our SD744t and a REDone. It's my first xp with this camera and it hasn't been a pleasant one on the "Timecode side of things". We tried to get TC from the camera using a SoundDevices Lemo-Lemo cable. When jamming, the 744 "saw" the incoming TC; it was just not the same appearing at the camera´s display. Frame rate was checked, the display was showing timecode and not edgecode...it just didn´t match. (744 was in free run jam once)

Then we decided to try the other way around: the 744 as master. Now in this situation we would jam the camera to the incoming TC but then, with the cable still attached and just after two or three seconds, the TC would drift. After 10 or 20 seconds, the timecode on the camera would be 1 second behind the TC on the 744. Basic stuff was checked and we haven´t still been able to solve this problems. We don't have an ambient or lockit nor we have a smart slate...

Any help would be deeply appreciated.

Jairo

 

[Tim Duran]

Jairo, one of the good things about Reduser is that there is some great advice being given out. The bad thing about Reduser is that you sometimes have to look hard to find it. I'm not a sound guy, but I read this Audio section all the time. Your issue has come up before and answered several times. You need to scroll back maybe 4-9 months and find a heading for similar question. Or you can use search, which I find very frustrating. Good luck.

 

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

Or you can use search, which I find very frustrating. Good luck.

Search on here doesn´t work very well, but using google usually helps a lot.
(I am not familiar with how to work TC either I am afraid, best of luck)

 

[jimhare]

My understanding is that jam syncing is accurate, but it will not show the jammed time on the LCD, it is correct in the file though.

This goes back about a year or two but don't remember anyone saying it had been resolved.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

My understanding is that jam syncing is accurate, but it will not show the jammed time on the LCD, it is correct in the file though.

This goes back about a year or two but don't remember anyone saying it had been resolved.

jam has worked fine here...
But we use lockit boxes like the first on this page on all devices...

http://www.pro-sound.com/Catalog/MISC/3.htm

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

Then we decided to try the other way around: the 744 as master. Now in this situation we would jam the camera to the incoming TC but then, with the cable still attached and just after two or three seconds, the TC would drift. After 10 or 20 seconds, the timecode on the camera would be 1 second behind the TC on the 744. Basic stuff was checked and we haven´t still been able to solve this problems. We don't have an ambient or lockit nor we have a smart slate...

Any help would be deeply appreciated.

Jairo

Jairo,

this the right way. We work exclusively this way since early 2008. The Sounddevice is the master and the camera the slave. Both devices never let us down. Set the TC in the 744t to TOD, make sure that the type of TC are the same on the camera and Sounddevice, eg. 25fps. Get the right lemo cable, plug Out to the 744t and In into the camera, set the RedOne' TC to sync and it should work. Your issue may be a wrong cable.

Ambient in Munich are one of the top shops when it comes to TC synching and sound recording. We've got our stuff from them and it works flawlessly. And no, you don't need necessarily a Clockit kit. The RedOne keeps synch for roughly 2 hours, at least mine. From then on you may have a 1 frame drift. Rebooting and then re-syching the camera every 2 hours will solve this problem. When using batteries obviously a non-issue.

Please note that the displayed TC on the Sounddevice and the camera may differ. We have encountered this every now and then. But we never had sync issues later in post. I consider this a bug. One more thing to know is the fact that after a reboot the sync is gone. Just plug in the lemo and check the LCD/EFV for the chain symbol and off you go.

Hope that helps,

Hans

 

[Marc Wielage]

When jamming, the 744 "saw" the incoming TC; it was just not the same appearing at the camera´s display. Frame rate was checked, the display was showing timecode and not edgecode...it just didn´t match. (744 was in free run jam once)

Jam the camera to the 744 -- don't jam the 744 to the camera. My advice is that you're better off hardwiring an Ambient or Denecke SB-T timecode generator to the camera, then jamming that timecode generator from the sound recorder (Deva, Sound Devices, Cantar, whatever). Use the sound recorder as the master timecode generator for the entire shoot.

Shoot a 2-minute test prior to the start of production, and shoot a timecode slate with a clap at the head and tail of the shot. Pull the camera footage and the sound file into your editing system and verify that both sync up with each other. Note whether the slate matches the camera timecode. Chances are, it may be 1 or 2 frames off, but this should be consistent throughout production. Timecode should never drift.

Re-jam the camera on every battery change, or whenever the camera is rebooted. I usually ask for a re-jam on a major set-up change as well, or if 4 hours has gone by, whichever comes first.

 

[Jairo_Acosta]

Hi!

Thanks for all the answers and help.

I apologize for asking the same questions some else asked before but since they were not answered I thought I´ll give it a try.
Some really helpful info has come, and now I have to wait for the editor to tell me what he founds out about the clips and their timecode.

Hans: you say that we should set the 744t to TOD (time of day I assume) that in the recorder is called 24 hour run. Why should we use this setting? what are the advantages of this type of TC?

Frame rate has been checked and we are re-jamming every hour AND when battery or flash memory are changed.

Thanks!

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

Hans: you say that we should set the 744t to TOD (time of day I assume) that in the recorder is called 24 hour run. Why should we use this setting? what are the advantages of this type of TC?

Hi Jairo,

Short answer: You don't get the same TC on a shootig day. Comes in handy when TC is the criterium for synching. That's the case in all NLE's and DIT apps. Any other TC will lead to chaos - and, BTW, what other TC would make sense when jamming two devices is desired?
Hans

 

[Don Barto Jr]

24-Hour Run TC on Sound Devices 744T is not the correct setting... Use Free Run only, when syncing with RED or any other devices. You can set the initial time code value on 744T to the actual clock time of day, but the T/C Mode must be Free Run to maintain sync to other devices. 24 Hour Run rejams t/c to the 744T's internal Time of Day clock if the unit is powered down. This will cause a difference in t/c btwn 744T and RED (drop-frame t/c, even when set initally to TOD will not reflect the actual clock time of day over time). Setting the 744T to Free Run T/C at the matching frame rate, and using a LEMO cable btwn RED and 744T (may need to initiate cross-over on RED if cable is not wired like this already) with 744T as Master should be good all day. Or use Lock-it boxes on 744T and RED and re-jam boxes mid-day or so.

 

[Manuel Wenger]

... and don´t trust the TC shown on the Red LCD, the TC shown on the LCD is about a second behind. If you want to make sure, check the TC in Redcine.

We´re working with TC sync on Red with 744 regularly and never had big issues ( we´re using Ambient Lockit on the Camera instead of hardwiring it)

Manuel

 

[J. Eric Camp]

Freerun, freerun, freerun.

Audio device is the master.

Jam sync on in R1

cross jam as necessary

re-jam after any power down

a lockit is your friend.

Worst comes to worse you can jam from the slate if you have the right cable. (keeps you from having to go over to sound with the camera after every reboot)

oh and a lockit is your friend

 

[Matt Mayer]

24-Hour Run TC on Sound Devices 744T is not the correct setting... Use Free Run only, when syncing with RED or any other devices. You can set the initial time code value on 744T to the actual clock time of day, but the T/C Mode must be Free Run to maintain sync to other devices. 24 Hour Run rejams t/c to the 744T's internal Time of Day clock if the unit is powered down.

In 24 Hour Run, the 7 series machines will only re-jam if the timecode generator has timed out after power down. IIRC, the timeout is 4 hours in the 744T/702T and 6 hours in the 788T.

If your machine is resetting immediately on power-down, your timecode battery needs to be replace.

Matt Mayer
User Interface Consultant
Sound Devices, LLC