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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Tridods?

chuck colburn said:
Right on Gibby!
And this is from the man who can hand hold the Zeiss 1700mm lens.
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Definitely...whew, good thing I hit the gym every day! Bring on da buggah...

(Uh oh, the Orygun posse is after me!)
 
Cross purposes?

Cross purposes?

earthling said:
Although these may be great, I'm happily using a Vinten 3 myself, I don't think they're designed for something the size of a Red One.

Regarding weight, we don't have exact figures yet, but we know the body's coming in at between 8 and 9 pounds, add to that : battery, Red drive, EVF or LCD (maybe both), rods, handles, LENS, mattebox, follow focus. Depending on your setup, you should have a tripod capable of taking 20 to 30 pounds confortably. Remember a tripod performs best when your camera weighs in the middle of the recommended weight range.

If I don't find something appropriate second hand and can afford it, I will go with an O'Connor 1030HD, count $5'000. The Panther X15, seen being used by the Red team while shooting the drag races with Frankie, looks pretty sweet, $ 5'600 for the system.

Good luck,
Damien

PS Tripods are expensive, but they should last a long time, longer than most digital cameras.
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Hi Earthling, we may be at cross purposes here - but I was reponding to Josh who has stated a budget of $2,500 which I know doesn't get you a fantastic tripod. You should be able to get something useable though? So my recommendations were with the budget restrictions firmly in mind rather than what I would actually buy for my RED. I can't tell you how much grief I've had with poor tripods and if you're going to use one it's a false economy to buy or rent too cheaply.

As Gibby has so eloquently and with a good deal of prescience pointed out, I'm one of those people (and suspect there are quite few on this forum) that are stuck between low budget EFP/ENG styles of shooting but with aspirations for much greater things for my RED - as in feature films or working with the BBC.

So I think I'll end up going with a set of Carbon Fibre legs, a good fluid head with a sturdy mounting plate. But I don't expect any change out of $5,000 and I may even have to go second hand. If anyone has any suggestions I'd be very happy to recieve them - then it's Ebay here I come!

Best regards, Phil
 
Hey Phil,

I've had good luck over the years buying used tripods. If you're in the right place at the right time, and the seller is highly motivated, you can sometimes find amazing deals! I've bought used sticks and heads from rental companies and from individuals. Most rental companies will have a short return/warranty period on merchandise you buy from them. That gives you the time to fully check out the equipment in the field and have your own technician check it over. Rental companies periodically turn over their equipment stock. Quite often there is nothing wrong with it, but it has been amortized out for a few years and renters are asking for newer models to rent. Good professional heads and sticks, well maintained, can give you years of additional service. Television stations/networks are another possible avenue to find used equipment. With them, I would reserve the right to have your own technician check over the equipment, and the right to return it if it doesn't meet your expectations. When I buy equipment from individuals I always reserve the right to have it checked out by my technician and return it if it doesn't measure up to what it should be.

One other suggestion: if you can only afford one used head, then perhaps you can find two sets of sticks for that head. One set that is lighter weight for mobile work, and another set that is heavier/sturdier for more stationary work. You end up transferring the head between sticks regularly, but at least you have the utility of effectively having two tripods.

You may already know all of the above, and if so ignore it, but there may be others that read this post and get some new ideas.

Cheers!
 
Hey Gibby - well fantastic advice for anyone I'd say. You're sharing your experience here which is invaluable and can save us all a lot of money. I hadn't thought about two sets of legs and one good head but as always it makes perfect sense. So thanks for that. Knowing my lack of experience with these things and my aspirations for the RED what would you recommend I look for?

Thanks a bunch, Phil
 
Glad to help...

Not knowing exactly what genres your will concentrate on, here's some general observations:

Heavier loads will need a 100mm ball head, which can also serve for lighter loads. If you're only doing lighter loads, a 75mm ball head is fine. I'd suggest the 100mm because that will give you the upward utility should you need it.

Look for good name brand fluid heads with a lot of adjustments for tension, drag, etc. Generally, the better heads have many ways to tweak the parameters of use. For mobile EFP/ENG use, I've had excellent service out of Vinten, Sachtler, and Miller. For heavier loads, and stationary cine-style use, I've had excellent service from O'Connor. In heads I look for the smoothest action I can find, for both pan and tilt.

For sticks (legs) for mobile EFP/ENG I've had good luck with Sachtler, some Vinten, and lightweight carbon fiber from Miller. For the heavier loads and stationary work, the O'Connor legs that match their heads are hard to beat. I never use floor spreaders if I can avoid it. Mid-level spreaders, or no-spreaders (Miller Solo) are what I need for mobile outdoor work. Spreaders on the ground in outdoor work are a nightmare - the runners on them clog up with dirt and grit. I also find mid-level spreaders handy for hanging headsets, cables, and even small sand bags in heavy winds to stabilize the tripod. I'm not a fan of multiple stages. I like one simple stage if I can get away with it. In fast-paced mobile work having to constantly set and un-set multiple stages on the legs is a timewaster. I also look for stage locks that are fast but very secure. The last thing I want is for a stage lock to fail and dump a camera over.

I know the above is pretty general advice, but if you apply it to your particular needs/wants, and what is available in used tripods, you should do just fine. You’d be amazed how many deals you can find on good used heads and legs if you take the time to search carefully. I don’t think I’ve ever bought a new tripod in my entire 30-year career! I've always let someone else take the hit for new prices, bought carefully using the principles I’ve outlined above, and never been dissatisfied with my tripod equipment. I’ve used what I saved on tripods to purchase other accessories I needed.

Hope this helps…
 
You are undoubtedly the most helpful person I have ever had the pleasure of exchanging words with - how extraordinary! You want everyone to benefit from your vast experience and you are like a walking encyclopedia of all things to do with film/video. What a treasure this forum has with you around!!

Thanks mate - I'll get you back at NAB !!

You don't happen to be partial to large cigars do you?

All the best, Phil
 
Thanks for the very kind words Phil...

Many people advised and mentored me at various stages of my career. I'm simply honoring them by following their example. I don't have all the answers - and I readily admit that. But what answers I do have I share with those I associate with.

I don't smoke...you can give my cigar to Jim at NAB. He's the one that deserves truckloads of good cigars as he celebrates the birth of his new RED baby!

C-ya at NAB!
 
I went on an expensive sales course once - one of their favourite sayings was "be a helpful person" - you are certainly honoring your mentors - how respectworthy. Mentoring isn't a word you hear much these days - it seems to be dreadfully old fashioned - more's the pity.

I was going to take Jim a cigar anyway - so I'll make it a pair now.

C-ya buddy
 
Tranquil_Light said:
Hi Earthling, we may be at cross purposes here - but I was reponding to Josh who has stated a budget of $2,500 which I know doesn't get you a fantastic tripod. You should be able to get something useable though? So my recommendations were with the budget restrictions firmly in mind rather than what I would actually buy for my RED. I can't tell you how much grief I've had with poor tripods and if you're going to use one it's a false economy to buy or rent too cheaply.

...(cut)
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True, you were presenting the options at the price given. I was trying to make the exact same point you mention above : when it comes to tripods, as you say, it's a false economy to go cheap, and we are talking about a tripod for a Red One here.

I thank you also Gibby for your wise advice. I, like Phil, am coming from smaller ENG/EFP type cameras and have been collecting much useful advice on this forum, among which, what the best tripod would be for a Red. O'Connor seems to clearly come out favorite of the polls, even though Miller, Vinten, Sachtler and Cartoni have been recommended by a number of Reduser or DVXuser members. According to the various weight estimates and Jim's kind input on the Red One Weight thread :
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1191&highlight=weight
an O'Connor 1030HD tripod is what seems to me like the best choice.

Cheers,
Damien
 
Larry McKee said:
...I have never been comfortable with Vinten since a lock slipped once and the camera and teleprompter went crashing to the floor. Naturally it was the leg across from me so I was grabbing at air as the camera went away.
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To be fair to Vinten though, this sounds like either the camera & teleprompter wasn't balanced front and back on the sliding baseplate (easy to forget if adding a prompter to a previously balanced camera), and/or the balancing spring wasn't turned up to match the weight of the whole load, and/or the total weight was out of the spec of the head's balancing spring.

Vinten tilt locks really aren't designed to be "hard locks" taking the weight of an out of balance load. If it was in balance, it would just stay in place when the tilt lock is released.
 
1030HD heaven

1030HD heaven

I just picked up an O'Connor 1030HD head and put it on Cartoni single stage CF legs (A303). Perhaps its my suspicious nature but I chose not to follow Gibby's advice to buy used and ate the full cost of buying new. I used a vendor who I buy a lot of gear from and send customers to, who gives me great deals. I have also found that buying things new and taking meticulous care of them results in a predictable user experience and, gives me great confidence when selling my services.

Right now I have a Sony D-30 head with DVCAM back, Fujinon B4 zoom lens, Anton brick and matte box/CF rods up on the head - roughly 25lbs. The 1030HD head is like butter - I am in love.

The Cartoni CF legs weigh only 5lbs and are rated to hold 132lbs. The stage locks are particularly sweet - very quick and easy to use with a lever lock style that feels very solid when shut.

I certainly agree with Gibby that when you are loaded up with Cine accessories or a monster zoom the lighter rigs are overmatched - fortunately those are just the kind of gigs where the cost of a tripod rental is unlikely to be an issue.
 
I'm probably going to go with the Oconnor 1030HD and their 35L Carbon fiber sticks with the quick release. I have an O'Connor right now matched with teh Miller Solo legs and love it, but it won't handle the Red.

Does anyone have experience with modern iterations of the 35L's, or comparable sticks? I used a set in film school and loved them, but sometimes the teeth on the legs would get gummed up and they wouldn't deploy properly -- not exactly an exciting proposition for a lot of field work. I wonder if they've fixed this problem.

I'm curious to know, for those who are going with Oconnor, who their preferred vendor will be. I foresee myself calling around a bit for price quotes, but am going to hold off till my Red has a delivery date.

Peter
 
I personally use Secced tripods.
I've been using the SC-DV tripod (Reach Plus 1 Kit) for about 2 years now.
It's carbon fiber so it's lightweight and pretty tough, I must say.
I've been pretty hard on it lately.

It came with a SC=DV6/75RP fluid head with a 75mm bowl and it's super smooth..
I know they have a new north american distributor at www.secced.info they're site is offering free shipping and a 3 year warranty at the moment.
Not sure how long the free shipping will last but I'm sure the warranty will remain the same.

Here's the package I own - http://secced.info/products/reach-plus-1-kit
 
For years I was using smaller consumer model tripods and when balanced properly offered a decent platform.
Recently though, I got myself a 100mm Miller Arrow and was surprised that there was no 'free wheel' setting. What I mean is that the head will always spring back to level when tilted up or down. Even on the lowest possible drag setting or whatever it still wants to spring back to level. I asked them about it and they said that was normal for that model as its designed for a decent payload. I love the safety aspect of not having your head flip forward if youre not paying attention but would have been nice to have the option of no drag at all and completely free.
 
That's not the drag, it's the counterbalance, and it is indeed something that you need to think about when getting a head. Normally heads have a payload range, and that's to do with the counterbalance, not as some people think the maximum load the head can take. An O'Connor 2065 may have a payload range of 0-32kg...but you could put 200kg and it would still work, it wouldn't collapse, it's just that the counterbalance wouldn't hold it. It is a shame that many heads these days don't have a zero or off setting for the counterbalance, I assume it's more complex and therefore expensive to make it like that.
Steve
 
For years now me and our crews have been using Cartoni tripod systems, currently the Focus 22 and Focus 12 heads with two stage, mid spreader, CF legs or three stage, spreaderless CF legs. Those work perfectly for our small crew, very mobile cine/EFP style of documentary production. Heads are very smooth and stable, and the legs are strong, stable, and durable.
 
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