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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The FUTURE of Raven... ?

Trevor Meier

Trevor Meier

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LOVE the 4.5K upgrade. Got me thinking about the future with the Raven. I know there's quite a few out there like me who use Red's in a doc shooting environment, and the big thing Reds lack is built-in ND (besides being power-hungry, but I hope Raven v1 will solve that).

Just having come back from a shoot with both my Epic and C300 mkII, it's really obvious how much the built-in ND improves the quality of the picture you can get by allowing you to be more responsive to the situation. No pulling the camera down to change NDs or adjust screw-on filters. You can stay in the moment, with the action.

The Red, not as much. But it's better (picture, price) or equal (weight, power once Raven arrives) in every other way.

The Canon EF mount is deep enough (as proven for the C300 mkII) and the Raven addresses most of the other differences. It's oh-so-close to being the perfect documentary camera. So I wonder if in the future, a paid-upgrade or higher-end version of the Raven (perhaps in a similar price point to the C300 mkII?) could carry built-in NDs. That would be the magic for me. Make it happen Red! It'd be awesome!
 
Trevor Meier said:
it's really obvious how much the built-in ND improves the quality of the picture you can get by allowing you to be more responsive to the situation.
Click to expand...

Call me crazy, but for minor adjustments just roll your aperture ring a tad.
(assuming its not "clicky" photo glass)

Very few will notice .1~.3 T/F stop changes in terms of DOF.
(sure, you may want to double check focus, especially if opening up... but rechecking focus is usually the case when changing anything in the optical path)

IMO, built-in NDs create other color science problems.
(FWIU, ND wheels are made from similar plastic/gelatin material as are applied to windows/lights - there aren't as color neutral as thick firecrest NDs for example)


Food for thought; Cheers.
 
This is an interesting topic to discuss because the fixed mount means no motion mount option, which I find absolutely invaluable - enough to have spent $6K to have a pair of them, one PL and one EF.

If RED gave RAVEN a fixed motion mount option, I would be all over it....it's very suitable to the type of shooting which Raven is targeting.
 
Let us not forget that Raven is NOT the end of RED's product development. Raven is Raven; and it's one hell of a lot of camera at the price. Then there is Weapon, maybe the ultimate camera available today. And there will be more. This is just so much fun!
 
Bob Gundu said:
Too be honest, I much prefer having a variable ND for run and gun. It's way more convenient and faster to make adjustments.
Click to expand...


This is what I always think when people are complaining about not having built in nd. Seems like an easy fix with a variable, or am I missing something?
 
Vari's create the same problem, EG moving inside to outside or no ND to some. Plus you still have to take them on & off the front of the lens.

That's not to mention the image quality issues. I've recently switched to Firecrest NDs because even the best Vari's I could buy (Heliopan) cause colour shift and resolution loss.
 
Also... the question of whether or not ND is necessary for documentary cinematography is kind of moot. You need ND. The question is whether it's built in or if you have to mount it in front of the lens.
 
I own the motion mount for my epic. It works great it has its issues but for me it works great. The one thing i hate about and why i am thinking of switching is.... If i am running the motion mount i am already loosing a stop and half of light. If want that light back i have to unscrew my mount and throw on my canon al mount. This is a big pain :(
 
Jacob Callaghan said:
I own the motion mount for my epic. It works great it has its issues but for me it works great. The one thing i hate about and why i am thinking of switching is.... If i am running the motion mount i am already loosing a stop and half of light. If want that light back i have to unscrew my mount and throw on my canon al mount. This is a big pain :(
Click to expand...
I hope we will see a MotionMount-specialized OLPF in the future. If i remember correctly this had been teased or mentioned. For now you could switch to the Standard OLPF or even LLO to get some light back (compared to STH).
 
I LOVE the Motion Mount. Really only useable for doc with the LLO installed. As mentioned already, MM is clearly not an option for Raven due to the fixed EF. +1 to built in ND, like Alexa Mini/Amira or C300. Raven is oh so close to stomping out the C300mk2. This would put the nail in the coffin IMO.
 
C300 does a lot of things really well. Not sure why anyone would want to "stomp it out." Always been weird to me that some consumers are begging for a monopoly in the camera world.
 
Not begging for a monopoly at all, I just don't personally like the C100/300/500 line and wish they would either address their ergonomic issues or go away. I'm forced to use them often and I'd rather have an Epic/Scarlet/AlexaMini/Amira/F55/FS7 (really anything else), so I'm hoping Canon falls a little out of favor. I don't think they deserve it anymore. The dynamic range is underwhelming and the ergonomics are fiddly. Way too much flex in the lens mount. It feels like a toy. And a little overpriced for 2015. I think Canon took a shortcut in going with the same basic body design and not addressing the button layout issues. There are certainly many lovely images that have been created with the C300, I just don't like to operate with it. I do however love the Canon Cinema zoom line. Great match with Cookes. Anyway, this is a Raven thread. It might be too late but Red, please drop some internal ND in there!
 
I think having a non-ND version as a start is fine to keep the cost low. I'd love to see a v2, an add-on or even an optional v1.1 that allows for the upgrade to an internal ND wheel. That's all it would take and BOOM, every doc shooter I know would be veeeeeery interested in the Raven.
 
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