Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Syncing Sound Devices 702T to Red Epic Dragon

L

Lee M

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
159
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Does anyone have any experience syncing the Sound Devices 702T to the Red Epic Dragon?

I bought this cable and it does absolutely nothing when connected regardless of what settings are on the Red or Sound Devices. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._catcl5ml4m_timecode_adapter_cable_5_pin.html It may just be a bad cable but for $89 you would expect it to work. B&H sent me a canned RMA response after I mentioned my issue basically asking me to answer a bunch of questions I already put in my request. I bought it since someone mentioned on the products Q&A that this was the cable I needed. Not sure if I want to deal with B&H anymore after spending tens of thousands with them only to find out how poor their customer support is over an $89 item which is the first time I requested support. Good thing Abel Cine has pretty much the same products, I am thinking of either buying the same cable from them or going with this one from Red = http://www.red.com/store/products/3bnc-to-00-lemo-sync-cable but not positive if it will work with the 702T. I see the bnc imput/outputs on it but not sure if its better to use the 5 pin BNC 'Ambient' marked output for timecode.

Any help would be appreciated.
 
Hi Lee
I have used that type of cable on my SD,ED and now EW cameras and 702T with no issue. I bought mine from Location Sound in LA.
One thing about using it on DMSC 1 was I often had to double check that I had pushed the cable "all the way in" on the camera.
ron
 
Lee M said:
Does anyone have any experience syncing the Sound Devices 702T to the Red Epic Dragon?
Click to expand...
The answer is, you have to do the opposite: you have to sync the Camera to the sound recorder, not sync the timecode of the recorder to the camera.

Ideally, get a lock box (like an Ambient Lockit or a Denecke SB3 or SB-T), jam it from the sound recorder, then stock the lockbox on the camera all day and have it jam continuously from that. It also helps to have a timecode slate just to verify that recorder, camera, and slate are all identical.

Last I checked, there was no way to get timecode out of a Dragon, unless this was recently changed.
 
I ended up ordering the Red cable as I didn't want to risk another faulty lemo. Hopefully plugging it into the BNC on the 702T can sync them up. I don't know much about this device but figured paying hundreds extra for the 702T vs the 702 would save me the cost of a lockit. Would syncing the timecode from the 702T to the Red (or vise versa as Marc mentioned) be sufficient enough to quickly be able to line up the audio with the video when it comes to editing? I am guessing I would just need to sync it before each shooting day.
 
I have read where people have been able to jam the camera to the recorder, disconnect them, and then go. That was not my experience. The camera drifted, pretty much right away. It works if you stay tethered.

Marc's suggestion is the way to go. Jam a sync box to that recorder then hang it on the camera to feed time code. I use the Tentacle when I use my kit (different cables). When you work with a pro production sound mixer, you'll more likely see the other ones that use a BNC connector.

Also, I'd just like to say that I've always had a good experience with B&H and found that they have a generous, no BS, return policy. They don't have the technical depth that they have a Able Cine but you pay for that on price. B&H's guys are mostly sales associates.
 
You will have to try it out and see if the single timecode sync in the morning holds for the whole day. It has never worked for me consistently. Is your camera in a studio where it will be powered on the whole day, with no restarts required? Same for 702T, does it have enough battery power to go for the whole day without a restart. I have seen timecode drift out of sync over 4-5 hours even in that studio setup. So I synch the camera and 702T every hour. And Especially before critical takes. It just takes a minute, but it is another thing you have to remember to do. It becomes a habit pretty quickly. That is the only way I have been able to make it work consistently in that setup (with direct cable to sync between 702T and Camera).
 
I have a similar cable custom made by Trew Audio Toronto a few years ago.

I paid over 150 CAD for it :P

Worked like a charm and yes you have to sync it to SD (I used a 744T).

You can also disconnect the cable and have had no issues.

Well actually, you have to sync at least two times a day just in case.
 
I will see how the Red cable does. It was just $11 more and had 2 more options for it. Hopefully it does the same thing. I am guessing that I can just reset the 702T to default film settings, connect the cable to the red and be good to go? Perhaps the issue with the B&H cable was that it was only a 1 way cable from the 702T to the Red, or at least that's which way the arrow was pointing.

B&H stepped up a bit with their responses. I guess my main peeve was them sending a response the next day asking for basically everything I put originally when I contacted them about the RMA through there web form. I am happy they handled it better after I started ranting to them.
 
Got the Red cable today, super quick shipping. Unfortunately I am still not getting anything to sync no matter what options I try. Perhaps the sync port on the Epic is faulty. Are there any other options for the timecode other than the sync port 4 pin lemo such as connecting via the BNC HD-SDI port on the Red?

I was able to reset the clock on the Red and 702T at the same time manually and it is off by a fraction of a frame, will check tomorrow to see if it stays synced that way. Any other suggestions would be awesome, trying to get use of the T in the 702 :)
 
Lee M said:
I was able to reset the clock on the Red and 702T at the same time manually and it is off by a fraction of a frame, will check tomorrow to see if it stays synced that way. Any other suggestions would be awesome, trying to get use of the T in the 702 :)
Click to expand...
I gave you the honest advice the first time. Believe me, this is how it's been done since the invention of timecode in the 1970s: the sound department drives the timecode for the entire shoot (in general), at least for scripted single-camera shoots. Timecode on the Red has never been 100% reliable, and I've seen even worse timecode accuracy in other cameras (take Canon, please). If you slap a timecode box on the camera, you have a fighting chance of the timecode being correct provided a) the camera is in the right mode, b) you're running at a sync-sound speed, c) the cable is reliable.

My experience is you still have to rejam to the box twice a day (once in the morning to start, and again about 5-6 hours later), but I've seen good ones go as long as 9-10 hours and not even be 1 frame out. Where this gets more complicated is multicam projects.
 
I've followed Marc's words for years now he's saved my ass numerous times and is a gift to us. I Took his advice long ago and have jammed three films now with an EPIC and a 702T no sweat just tc to RED via SD re jam after break and after lunch just keep an eye on tc read out on RED to match SD and you are golden. Tc flows via sound dept always have. Simply jam RED from TC via SD and run a tc box (if need) to be a total boss on set. Both units will display matching tc and you can focus on lighting a scene now. Marc thanks man for years now thanks. Hero shit.
 
I wanted to try to get it working without the timecode box first but am not having any luck. Perhaps some of the settings are wrong? I will take a video with my phone of the process I am going through next time I am at the studio. I appreciate the help
 
Lee M said:
I wanted to try to get it working without the timecode box first but am not having any luck. Perhaps some of the settings are wrong? I will take a video with my phone of the process I am going through next time I am at the studio. I appreciate the help
Click to expand...

I've had the 744T, that same kind of cable (5 to 4 pin Lemo) and my Scarlet working on set without a lock-it.

We did lose some sync due to camera shut-down but of the 1500 or so clips, only 12 clips were out of sync.

Would this help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7n6Yd2vhzM

Once I see the TC on the display, it all works.
 
Lee- Just a thought. The 702T has an internal battery to power the time code generator and time of day clock. Since these are older units I replaced mine when i got it several years ago. It was easy if I remember correctly. Page 56 in user manual...Good luck
 
ron mustain said:
Lee- Just a thought. The 702T has an internal battery to power the time code generator and time of day clock. Since these are older units I replaced mine when i got it several years ago. It was easy if I remember correctly. Page 56 in user manual...Good luck
Click to expand...
I think all the Sound Devices units have an internal flat battery used to keep the timecode going even if power is disconnected. It is true that the units will go flakey if this internal battery goes south. You'll know very quickly if this is the case if you shut the machine down, then power it back up a minute later and the timecode has reset to some bogus numbers.

Their machines are very, very reliable when they have good power.
 
Lee-With the 702 T powered off -boot up the cameras and connect the 702T to the sync port. Within a few seconds you should get a green TC indicator on the monitor. Camera settings- menu-settings-Project-timecode--Display mode= TOD
Source=external.
The above is what I observe. If you do not see the the green TC indicator on the get go it seems like there is some kind of connection issue.
I would double check the internal battery I mentioned in previous post . It is a NiMH LR6 (AA) It may or may not be related but seems suspect. I doubt that two different cables would be faulty.
I am far from an expert with this and am not in this industry, my deal is aviation...good luck I hope this helps.
 
Lee M, have you tested the 702 T with another Red camera to see if it took the TC? FWIW, I had trouble getting TC from my Zoom F4 to my Scarlet Dragon, the problem ended up being the lower control board on my Scarlet needing to be replaced.
 
Jamon Lewis said:
Lee M, have you tested the 702 T with another Red camera to see if it took the TC? FWIW, I had trouble getting TC from my Zoom F4 to my Scarlet Dragon, the problem ended up being the lower control board on my Scarlet needing to be replaced.
Click to expand...

I will give that a shot, I am guessing that the sync port the issue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top