Safari not showing "Original" 4K option for some videos on YouTube--Firefox works...

[Steve Conry]

Safari not showing "Original" 4K option for some videos on YouTube--Firefox works...

Hey guys,

I've just uploaded a recent project shot primarily on RED and plan to go live with it Monday morning. We have exported and uploaded a 2.5K ProRes LT file and it looks amazing when viewed at "Original" on YouTube.

We are experiencing a problem however... it seems that when we visit the video on Safari there is no "Original" option, just 360-1080p.

Unfortunately, we are unable to share this the link at this time for your reference due to our release schedule but I was wondering if anyone has had this problem? We are having it on several machines in several states and can't find anyone talking about it so far.

To illustrate the problem:

Here is a link to a different video that we HAVE been able to view at "Original" on Safari just fine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXmix33CfZw and here is one where i can't seem to get it to work in "Original" on Safari: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsrPTpg6mNo


Wondering if maybe this has to do with putting up a 2.5k file as opposed to 4k? Is safari unable to do the in between resolutions at this time? Why are some videos working fine on Safari at "Original" and others don't get the option?

Thanks for any input.

Steve

 

[Brandon J.F.]

There are some differences with how the files were encoded. Take a look:

Here is a link to a different video that we HAVE been able to view at "Original" on Safari just fine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXmix33CfZw

...here is one where i can't seem to get it to work in "Original" on Safari: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsrPTpg6mNo

Could it be the framerate? 24 vs. 23.976? What framerate are you using? Maybe it's the Frame rate mode. Variable vs. Constant.

I have problems playing the second video back locally with VLC player. Stutters, freezes, pixels, etc. The first one plays back perfectly.

 

[Tonaci Tran]

Yeah! I have run into the same problem.
I uploaded a 4k prores file that showed up with "original" and now no longer does.

By the way, youtube dropped 4k options for some reason last year. It has "original" but this original is a 2k playback, NOT 4k.

I hope that with a push of a button from youtube's end, they can reactivate the 4k options at some point.

Tonaci

 

[Brandon J.F.]

Yeah! I have run into the same problem.
I uploaded a 4k prores file that showed up with "original" and now no longer doesn't.

By the way, youtube dropped 4k options for some reason last year. It has "original" but this original is a 2k playback, NOT 4k.

I hope that with a push of a button form youtube's end, they can reactivate the 4k options at some point.

Tonaci

People are still uploading 4k videos. Maybe they just temporarily stopped it? Here's one that was uploaded just the other day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_okcNVZqqI

Details:

Can you post a link to the 4k prores video you uploaded that no longer has the "original" option?

 

[Tonaci Tran]

Hi Brandon,

The issue is not with uploading 4k. We are all able to upload 4k. The issue is that youtube dropped 4k playback support.

discussion about youtube 4k support drop:
http://blog.dv411.com/2012/07/youtube-no-4k.html

So all these labeled "4k" videos on youtube are not actually playing back in 4k. The "original" option is actually 2k.

It is very misleading because even this website, which just made a post yesterday, is under the belief that the youtube videos are indeed playing in 4k.
http://www.ultrahdtv.net/ink-drops-in-4k-ultra-hd/#.UQ1X_UJHJ5g


When youtube finally brings back the 4k option, I think it would be less confusing if they put an actual "4k" or ULTRAHD" button instead of "original."

When you right click the video "show info" is clearly shows only 2k playback. Below is a screengrab of the link you gave me. It is not 4k.

On top of that, my video no longer even shows the "original" option. Which is exactly the same issue that Steve is having.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOjwC5mSgVA

Steve, did you upload a prores or h264 4k file?

 

[Brandon J.F.]

Hi Brandon,

hate to burst your bubble, but the files that show original are ALL currently at 2k only.

Interesting. Looks like playback is 2k for me too. You can still download the 4k files though and, oddly, there are no 2k files to download. The video specs I'm posting are from the 4k files I downloaded to my computer.

On top of that, my video no longer even shows the "original" option. Which is exactly the same issue that Steve is having.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOjwC5mSgVA

Your video has the Original option for me and I just downloaded the 4k mp4. Here are the details:

In case there is any doubt you can download your 4k video here:

Enzoani Timeless - 4K Ultra HD(Original_H.264-AAC).mp4 (293.4 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!QksmRDQD


I DMd you the decryption key in case you don't want anyone else to download it.


Tonaci, can you go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsrPTpg6mNo Do you see "Original" as an option? I may have figured this out...

 

[Tonaci Tran]

Hi Brandon,

Thanks for investigating. Yeah, I know the files are totally upload-able in 4k and are 4k sitting on their server.

It is super weird but I see "original" options for certain videos and don't see the option in my own, or others.

below is safarai and chrome. Which browser are you using? The link you gave me does not show "original" as an option on my Macbook Retina in safari or google chrome.
this video that Steve pointed out in the first post, does show up with "original" however: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXmix33CfZw

What computer and browser are you using Brandon?

No "original" showing even though video was uploaded in 4k.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

Hi Brandon,

Thanks for investigating. Yeah, I know the files are totally upload-able in 4k and are 4k sitting on their server.

It is super weird but I see "original" options for certain videos and don't see the option in my own, or others.

below is safarai and chrome. Which browser are you using? The link you gave me does not show "original" as an option on my Macbook Retina in safari or google chrome.
this video that Steve pointed out in the first post, does show up with "original" however: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXmix33CfZw

What computer and browser are you using Brandon?

No "original" showing even though video was uploaded in 4k.

I'm using Windows 7 64-bit and Chrome.

The issue seems to be with "Frame rate mode". If it's set to "variable" when encoding the video does not show up as "Original" on Macs. If it's "constant" it does. That's the pattern so far... Anyone want to test it?

Oh, and I have issues with the video too. Playing your video back at "Original" crashed Flash in Chrome and I also have problems playing back the other one locally that is not visible to you guys (also "variable").

Tonaci, do you have a video that you uploaded that still shows Original?

 

[Tonaci Tran]

Hey Brandon,

Thanks again for taking the time to figuring this out.
the "variable" frame rate mode you are referring to. Do you know if this is something youtube designates upon upload? or is it something form my end with the file I uploaded?
in other words, I wonder what I need to do to make the file "constant" so that it can be seen across platforms at least with the "original" showing as an option (assuming constant solves the issue of "original" showing as a resolution option across computer/browsing platforms)

When you say it crashed, did it crash playing the original file only? or does it crash regardless of resolution (ie 1080 or 720?)

 

[Tonaci Tran]

Brandon, I just sent you a PM. thx!

 

[Brandon J.F.]

Hey Brandon,

Thanks again for taking the time to figuring this out.
the "variable" frame rate mode you are referring to. Do you know if this is something youtube designates upon upload? or is it something form my end with the file I uploaded?
in other words, I wonder what I need to do to make the file "constant" so that it can be seen across platforms at least with the "original" showing as an option (though I know it is only 2k at the moment)

When you say it crashed, did it crash playing the original file only? or does it crash regardless of resolution (ie 1080 or 720?)

It crashed playing back the Original version.

My assumption is the frame rate mode is set when you encode the video locally. I'm quite certain YouTube leaves settings like this alone. What are you using to encode with?

 

[Brandon J.F.]

Tonaci and I have been discussing this off forum. Here is what we did so far...

I have been analyzing the video with this app: http://sourceforge.net/projects/mediainfo/ Tonaci installed it and checked his original ProRes LT encoded master file and it did NOT show the "frame rate mode" as being "variable" like the YouTube encoded version showed. This means that YouTube choked on the file when it re-encoded it.

How is "frame rate mode" determined? Here is the explanation I found online:

I detect variable frame rate from:- duration of a frame
- time stamp difference.
I test few tens of frames at the begining of the stream.
- a stream indicated as VFR is VFR for sure (detected)
- a stream indicated as CFR may be VFR if it changes later. It would be weird, I never saw such file.

Here is the source: http://sourceforge.net/p/mediainfo/discussion/297610/thread/b2a2708d/

So, the question now is whether or not YouTube has this problem with all ProRes LT videos or if it's just sometimes an issue. I have no way to encode ProRes so Tonaci is doing some tests now to help determine this. Both his video and the original poster's were ProRes LT.