Rounding out RED package with Timecode sync

[Dave Beard]

Hey guys. Did some searching, and was having trouble finding any solid answers to my problem. Hopefully you can help me out. I'll start with the background info first.

I've been working very closely with a DP who owns his own RED package. I do all of his editing, and I've kinda fallen into being responsible for all location sound and video village responsibilities. Up until now, we've been doing mostly small commercial shoots, and a few movie trailers. We haven't been syncing anything with timecode. For anything that we recorded onto our recorder, we just used a plain jane slate. PAIN!!!!! We have recently been recording both to our Tascam HD-p2 and to the camera, but primarily relying on the audio recorded to the camera for ease of editing. I'm well aware this is not the best way of doing things.... which brings me here.

I want to know what it's going to take to get me up to speed with TC sync between our audio recorder and the camera. We have been shoot mostly to CF cards, which kills when using EDGE code. Every time we put in a new card, it starts at 01:00:00:00 all over again. I want to start at 01:00:00:00 and roll through the entire day of shooting without having to reset anything. I'm assuming I'll be looking at purchasing some equipment, and that's fine, I just don't know what direction to go in. And preferably doing it wireless so I don't have a mess of cables coming from the camera.

So what I'm looking for, is what equipment am I going to need, what cables am I going to need, and how do I make this system wireless. Big thanks in advance for any help.

Cheers

 

[Brian Ferguson]

Hi Dave,

I'll give a go at some of your questions...
Recording on the camera and a separate recorder is typical of most RED One shoots. The sound on the camera is quite good but most recordists want the control of having the recorder right at their fingertips. The mix feed is usually sent wired or wireless to the camera. If the feed to the camera is done properly the audio is fine for editing, some just use the recorder audio as a back-up.

Ok I looked up Tascam's HD-P2 online - http://www.tascam.com/products/hd-p2;9,11,52,16.html

HD-P2 Synchronization features:

* SMPTE/LTC timecode input on locking XLR balanced jack
* Timestamps Broadcast WAVE recordings from SMPTE input
* Chase locks to incoming SMPTE timecode
* Video clock input resolves to house clock
* Tri-level sync support for HDTV applications
* Includes Frame Lock, Lock and Release and flexible Freewheel settings for unpredictable timecode sources
* Pull-up and Pull-down sample rates included for video format compatibility

The fact that it only receives TC means you will have to use the camera or a slate for the source to lock the recording to. This is one way to do it, you use the camera as the source and turn on output in the Timecode menu and sync everything to the camera. You probably could minimally use a cable from camera to your recorder with the proper adaptors but the camera has a 5 pin Lemo and the HD-P2 has a 3 pin XLR for TC so it will take some figuring to get the cables right and do plenty of testing before a shoot to make sure it works.You are going to need to devise a system you feel comfortable with and it will probably evolve. This is one reason location sound mixers get paid well. They have been trained and have a lot of trial and error experience. None of this is super simple because these are all professional tools.

The minimum TC set-up would be a recorder the camera and a Smart Slate meaning one that has a Timecode display on it. As in the case of any of these products there seems to be only 2 companies
Ambient Recording http://www.ambient.de/produkte/timecode/timecode_e.html
and
Deneke http://www.denecke.com/
Deneke pretty much pioneered this category, we used to refer to the TC Slate as a "Deneke"

I like using the recorder as a source because it is usually easier to set-up the TC because the menus are somewhat more intuitive than they are on a slate. In your case the HD-P2 does not output TC so this is not an option like it is on a recorder like a Sound Devices.

Remember to re-jam the camera (or recorder depending on which is the source and what is getting jammed) after each re-boot this is because the clock may shift after each camera boot. To avoid that you would either run a hard wired cable from the recorder, which most people hate, or you would use a device called a Clockit/Lockit from Ambient or a similar box from Deneke a SB-3 for example. It is a box about the size of a cigarette pack. You jam it from the recorder and then jam the camera and leave it hooked up all day. The advantage of this is the Sync Box can give you genlock which is just a tighter reference for keeping the sync.

In addition to these there is another element which could be added which is a Contoller or a Master Clock which you would use to jam all devices instead of using your recorder or camera. The Ambient one is the one I have used and it even has a GPS on it to program your clock from satellites, and it can analyze the clock compared to the jammed to device and tell you if there is any difference in TC between the two. You can see some of this at the above web sites. This all starts adding extra costs which most don't want. Most of these devices cost more than a Tascam HD-P2. You can always rent a TC slate in the beginning. I highly advise you visiting a pro film production audio supplier. In L.A. there are a few like Coffey Sound and Location Sound Corp., ask around in your area for a recommendation. The people at these places can help you pick what you need, might be able to do it on the phone but it is more fun to go in person. :coolgleamA:

You need to use time of day Timecode on the RED ONE for Jamming purposes, not edgecode, because when you use the Jam menu you will see the time of day TC change to your source time. That is how you know you succeeded in matching TC. That and a little gold chain shows up in the viewing system. Make sure all devices are at the same frame rate as the camera 23.98 for example. There are exceptions to this but I don't want to get complex right now. Still most people want to use their local time programmed into the recorder or Master Clock because using the "time of day" it helps people find clips because script can write down the time in notes even if they can't see the slate, and be somewhat close.

The edgecode will still be there it just won't be displayed on the viewing system. You don't have to worry about TC breaks like you do in a tape based system because each clip is self contained. By its definition Edge Code will start at 01:00:00:00 on every roll change. That is what it is for, to tell you where you are in the media or "roll".

Hope that helps...

 

[Dave Beard]

WOW, Brian... thank you sooo much. You were a huge help! In the time it took me to get back and check your post, I ended up splurging for a Denecke TS-C Compact Smart Slate, and a Denecke SB-3 TC Generator. Haven't gotten a chance to hook them up yet though.