REDCINE and GPU = co-work?

[Sanjin Jukic]

2. REDCINE is developed on both Windows & Apple systems!

Although RED is Apple oriented there are enough Windows work stations around. I'm already running several here...

Sorry Rob, I forgot to mention you as one of REDCINE GODS together with Jim and Graeme.

Again PC vs. Apple is just a boring story.

What I am interested in is to work on the next MacBook Pro with REDCINE til end of year or beginning the next when I hope all that 8 CPU and nVidia vs. AMD GPU situation will be clear.

 

[Bruce Allen]

Again PC vs. Apple is just a boring story.

What I am interested in is to work on the next MacBook Pro with REDCINE til end of year or beginning the next when I hope all that 8 CPU and nVidia vs. AMD GPU situation will be much clear.

I totally agree! It's just the original poster wanted a recommendation of Mac-compatible GPUs and my recommendation was "Wait - RedCine isn't released and Apple GPU options suck at the moment. They don't have GF 8 series yet".

By the end of next year, the Intel roadmap is quad-core 45nm laptops. I think that there you will have something pretty nice. Hopefully by that time they'll have a higher-res laptop display (like PCs currently have) but with an elegant resolution-independent solution (like what will come with next Mac OS). Until then, I think speeds will be a little frustrating for us impatient creative sorts.

How does that relate to the original post? Well, I say if you absolutely have to buy something now, go for a cost-effective card. Do not blow cash on the latest and greatest because everything will be so much much faster and cheaper next year. Eg I don't recommend the super-expensive GeForce 7-based Quadro that is the current top of the line on the Mac.

As for me, I have simply decided not try to shoot any 4K features until this is sorted out and super-cheap My $500 home PC is fine for running Final Draft... although I was at a coffee shop in LA today and there were 4 "scriptwriters" there using shiny new MacBooks so maybe I am missing out.

Now, if only I can stop checking this addictive reduser.net forum... I was at a talk with the director of the (oscar-winning film) Lives of Others and he said the only way he got his script done was by moving into a monk's cell for a while...

Good luck with the GPUs, people!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

By the end of next year, the Intel roadmap is quad-core 45nm laptops. I think that there you will have something pretty nice. Hopefully by that time they'll have a higher-res laptop display (like PCs currently have) but with an elegant resolution-independent solution (like what will come with next Mac OS). Until then, I think speeds will be a little frustrating for us impatient creative sorts.

I'm imagining all that with high speed SSD + OLED screen


I was talking the similar thing to my friend and his reply was "Yeah, but soon after that that won't be enough for you also".
I had no comment.

But...somehow I think that next gen will be pretty enough for the mobile usage (with reasonable needs in mind). The most complex graphics, color correction and special effects should be done in a studio anyway.

And yeah - chasing creativity is really a problem when you're chained to a "est. time left"...

- I don't want to be impatient, it's just that creativity doesn't like to wait...:umm:

 

[Evan Owen]

OS X Supports Display Rotation

OS X Supports Display Rotation

I pretty well figured that... It's just curious that display rotation continues to be ignored on the Mac. It's a feature that tons of people are screaming for and most desktop publishing and page layout pros who know their Mac hardware will not buy a Mac with an nVidia chip because of this reason.

I'm not sure when it came in, but display rotation is built into Mac OS X as of the current version. The option won't appear if the display doesn't specifically support rotation however... I have a Dell 2005FPW on a GeForce2MX card (yes, ancient Mac) and it works great in either landscape or portrait (or upside-down, etc.).

 

[Rob Lohman]

Sanjin: thanks

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'm not sure when it came in, but display rotation is built into Mac OS X as of the current version. The option won't appear if the display doesn't specifically support rotation however... I have a Dell 2005FPW on a GeForce2MX card (yes, ancient Mac) and it works great in either landscape or portrait (or upside-down, etc.).

Display rotation has absolutely NOTHING to do with the display supporting it or not. Unless you're implying that support is the display mounted on a stand which allows the monitor to pivot. Rotation is part of the GUI function of the OS, but the video drivers themselves still must support it. nVidia does not support it on their current Mac offerings -- ATI does. But if I'm going to point fingers, I should also note that I can list several OpenGL functions that nVidia supports via their drivers and hardware that ATI does not.

Current nVidia video offerings for the G5 Power Mac as well as the Mac Pro systems DO NOT support display rotation. The ATI cards do. Commonly known issue. Same with the iMac 24" -- no display rotation for the 24" built in display, nor the secondary display if connected. However, display rotation is fully supported on the 20" iMac with the ATI X1600 GPU as well as the Macbook Pro (ATI X1600) for both the primary display and a secondary if connected.

Seriously, go browse through any of the Mac forums like the ones at Macrumors.com or Macnn, etc.. there are tons of pissed off G5 PM owners with 7800GT and FX4500 cards that can't rotate their displays. And many have had to run secondary displays or even a third display off of another installed video card like an ATI 9600 in order to get rotation.

Older nVidia GeForce and GFII [MX and GS] support rotation though... Like yours. Rather frustrating, really. My Dell 3007's and 2405's all work beautifully in portrait mode on a PC, but not on my FX4500 equipped G5 quad. I can connect them as a second display to a Macbook Pro and run them in portrait mode. Just lame really.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

As for me, I have simply decided not try to shoot any 4K features until this is sorted out and super-cheap My $500 home PC is fine for running Final Draft... although I was at a coffee shop in LA today and there were 4 "scriptwriters" there using shiny new MacBooks so maybe I am missing out.

Now, if only I can stop checking this addictive reduser.net forum... I was at a talk with the director of the (oscar-winning film) Lives of Others and he said the only way he got his script done was by moving into a monk's cell for a while...

Good luck with the GPUs, people!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Bruce,

Also I totally agree! I will order the most needed accessories from RED and one Arri standard to PL adapter, maybe one affordable Arri Zeiss 35mm zoom and disappear in a sort of Zen-Buddhist monk's environment to write my feature. And when I am back hopefully all that CPU-GPU price/performance options with Apple hardware/software is clear.

 

[Bruce Allen]

Haha, reduser.net - one of the few places on the net where people are passionate about digital film tech, but know when to put aside mac/pc differences and go and make films... this common goal unites us and makes the forum a lot of fun.

Sanjin, I bet you guys have really nice Zen monk-style environments in Austria! Such beautiful architecture. And better coffee houses for writing in, too

Bruce

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Bruce,

Wien schon schön. Have a look from your writter's LA cafe
http://www.vrvienna.com/

I live around the corner from Schloss Belvedere-Belvedere Palace.

Zen feeling with a natural calmness in Alpine environment you could get in Tyrol/Vorarlberg.

Try out this

http://www.stuibenfall.at/freizeit.htm

or

"life, living and the industries of the Neolithic Age"
http://www.oetzidorf.at/eng/seite2.htm

 

[Gregory Karydis]

A little info on the new (G80) nVidia GPUs
The 8800GTX and the Quadro FX4600 (announced about 2 weeks ago) have the exact same hardware.
Inly difference is the DeviceID stamp which is 0190 for the GeForce and 019E for the Quadro.
Apple is unlikely to put a GeForce in their systems but I can expect a Quadro in there.

The DeviceID is what the OS and the driver read and decide which libraries to load (consumer or pro)

After a helluva lot of tinkering I have managed to turn a GeForce8800GTX into a Quadro without altering any of the hardware (just firmware and software) It operates like the real thing and none is the wiser.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

A little info on the new (G80) nVidia GPUs
The 8800GTX and the Quadro FX4600 (announced about 2 weeks ago) have the exact same hardware.
Inly difference is the DeviceID stamp which is 0190 for the GeForce and 019E for the Quadro.
Apple is unlikely to put a GeForce in their systems but I can expect a Quadro in there.

There are a few other subtle hardware differences. For example the Quadro version of the card supports up to 8 stencil or masking buffers in hardware as well as 4 overlay planes. The GeForce only supports 1 on each. The Quadro also supports more hardware accelerated "GL Lights". Quadro card has a multi-function genlock port for stereo shutter glasses or other peripheral devices.

But for the most part, the hardware is identical and unless you run one of the very rare and obscure applications that can even use the extra features, you're wasting your money on the Quadro. Just like the FX4500 in a G5 Quad power Mac. I own one, it's a complete waste compared the 7800GT option that was also available. ...Unless you actually needed to drive dual 30" displays or needed the genlock port or... Which I did, so I coughed up the $$$. Don't go thinking they're identical except for the minor ID tags and firmware... Not the case. You can actually read the list of functional differences between the two GPUs in nVidia's developer docs. You'll have to register to take a look. But really, I just about covered, it's very minor and even though I run 3D software like Modo, Lightwave, Maya and XSI. I can honestly say, a Quadro offers no benefit over a GeForce and I will buy and run the GeForce card when I can.

After a helluva lot of tinkering I have managed to turn a GeForce8800GTX into a Quadro without altering any of the hardware (just firmware and software) It operates like the real thing and none is the wiser.

Quadro hacks (like SoftQuadro) have been available for years in PC land. In the early days, the hardware was truly identical. But Starting with the QuadroII, nVidia did start putting additional hardware functions into the Quadro line of GPUs... But many of the Quadro hacks became more sophisticated and utilized some pretty good software routines to cover for the missing line and point functions. And in a great many cases, it never mattered because outside of a few obscure applications, none of the unique quadro features were ever used. The benefits to running the Quadro driver set on the GeForce hardware was typically a different optimization level -- driver functions tuned more for CADD style applications. With the latest drivers these days from nVidia, the internal optimizations are the same between GeForce and Quadro and you tune your selected optimization and function set with their application templates. On the Mac we're still lacking that functionality.

But I really hope Apple offers the GeForce 8800GTX and upcoming 8900 iterations. I have a bad feeling they will do their usual brain dead product offerings and let us choose from a budget 8600GT/8800GT or pay through the nose for the Quadro. :sad: For a PC, my choice would be a dual 8800GTX SLI config. If people are truly seeing a benefit from running the Quadro driver set on that config, I'd do that too as long as stability isn't compromised.

 

[Gregory Karydis]

You'll have to register to take a look. But really, I just about covered, it's very minor and even though I run 3D software like Modo, Lightwave, Maya and XSI. I can honestly say, a Quadro offers no benefit over a GeForce and I will buy and run the GeForce card when I can.

Been a registered developer for more than a year now.
Actually I run Houdini, Lightwave and Maya and to be honest I completely regret investing on a couple of Quadro FX5500s since I can render with nVidia's Gelato with a couple of 8800GTXs.

BTW, Rivatuner won't work for the G80 series (I was involved in the making of the most recent release and alas there is nothing that can be done...)