Red One Audio Advice Needed

[Scott Brown]

Hi Folks

We're due to receive our Red One camera shortly and I'm looking for some advice on the audio position.

As it stands, I gather that there is no easy way to adjust audio levels on the Red with a mic directly connected to the XLR input. I also gather that there is a problem associated with using the Red's 48V phantom power which results in hiss etc.

With this in mind, what is the simplest/best option for our audio recording?

On any project that requires a complex audio recording we always work with a dedicated sound recordist, however most of our work involves recording interviews with one subject and we nearly always use a 416 mic for this.

I'm thinking that perhaps the Sound Devices MixPre would be a good option? We would attach our 416 to this, adjust levels and feed a line in to the camera. Will the quality of Red's onboard sound be good enough with this option or would we be better to look at acquiring a Sound Devices 422 or similar. Can this unit be used as a mixer/recorder or would we still need to use a dedicated mixer with this?

I'm also wondering if it would it be possible someone to manufacture a small two channel pre amp with pot that could be hard mounted on the Red camera body?

Hope you can assist here.

Much appreciated.

best wishes

Scott

 

[Joel Kaye]

I've got the same questions. I'm also wondering if RED thinks they can fix the phantom power problem at all. Does build 16 even address audio?

 

[Mike Paul]

I had a customer come in yesterday with his Red and he wanted to get a 416 to plug in as well. Connecting the 416 to the Red (and using the Red 48V power) resulted in the hiss that has been mentioned before.

The simple solution was to use an external 48V power supply, in this case the Denecke PS-1, to provide the power.

Any of the Sound Devices mixers or pre-amps would not only provide the 48V power, but would also provide low-cut filters, better pre-amps and a more flexible output section. Sound Devices is never a bad idea

 

[Scott Brown]

Thanks guys

I really wish the Red team would give us some input on the audio issues - focus seems totally to be on image not sound. I still need clarification that if we feed the Red with line in audio from a mixer, the quality will be acceptable.

With 24 bit uncompressed on-board it certainly should be, but any audio people care to confirm this?

Scott

 

[T. Glen Phelps]

Hi Mike Paul, I was the customer you spoke of. Thanks for the outstanding support from your staff. Scott, you are correct. Their is no easy way to adjust the levels without weeding through menus, which is impractical to say the least. My camera produces a noticeable hiss when the +48v phantom power is enabled. The solution I went with was to connect my 416 to a Sound Devices MixPre, a two channel mixer which also supplies phantom power. I disabled the phantom power on the camera and changed the input to "line-in". This seems to work great. The only drawback is finding a place to mount the MixPre.

Tracy

 

[Luis Ortiz]

This was recommended to me by Custom Supply (205) 252-0141. Clips on your sound guy's belt. Anyone use this?

http://www.sounddevices.com/download/guides/mm1_en.pdf

 

[Stuart English]

Audio

Audio

My camera produces a noticeable hiss when the +48v phantom power is enabled. The solution I went with was to connect my 416 to a Sound Devices MixPre, a two channel mixer which also supplies phantom power. I disabled the phantom power on the camera and changed the input to "line-in". This seems to work great. The only drawback is finding a place to mount the MixPre.

Yup, that's a pretty good summary. We are working on a variety of quality issues with Build 16, but Phantom Power generated hiss isn't an issue addressable in the firmware at this time. So best to not enable it (i.e accept line input or self powered microphones) or use it with caution - certain microphones will be less susceptible to this issue than others.

 

[vstm10]

so if I have the sound from a Maki mixer I can just put it through Line-in and it will record without hiss?

 

[Scott Brown]

Hi Stuart

When you say the audio hiss cannot be solved via firmware at this time, does this mean that this is a hardware issue? If so what plans do Red have to fix this? As I've already said, the focus seems to have been 100% image thus far and audio has been sadly rather neglected.

This is a mistake and will impact on Red's reputation if not addressed quickly. As we all know in this business, bad pictures can be salvaged, bad audio cannot! (Or at least NOT easily!!)

Without actually knowing what's inside the Red it is difficult to speculate but there MUST be a solution that will allow us to operate the Red without ALWAYS having to have a sound recordist. Surely having the ability to plug in ONE mic to record an interview and be able to easily adjust the volume is not complicated? Is there scope for a collaboration between Red and Sound Devices here to solve this?

Re. the Sound Devices hardware discussed here, is it possible to mount this on the camera in a way that will make solo camera operation feasible?

Amidst all the obsession about picture quality, I REALLY hope that Red are taking these audio gremlins seriously.

Best wishes

Scott