Red Drive Replacement Main Board Pricing or Hyperinflation?

[Nuno Ribeiro]

somebody said it before "...they're working on volume not margin". I guess business models migrate between business. the world is very reactive at the moment (100years), but a question,is just a question, and doubt contains a plethora of possible answers. So if the question was answered in the post the wise quote came from, why is it that a fellow in doubt needs to feel he has to defend himself? Is the plethora scary?

 

[Costelloe Michael]

So if you have a faulty red-drive.. may as well buy a new one (except you can't of course)

I must be living in an alternative universe. I'll be selling my Epic-X asap unless someone can justify this pricing to me

Anyone know what hardware is in there?

I've been renting my R1 (1912), since I got it.. and at the rates I charge (which are frankly revolutionary), this is a kick in the nuts with a steel toe capped boot..

The boys at red europe don't set prices, but someone does..

I don't feel that anyone has my back

One step forward, one step back

I know the world may be on the brink of hyperinflation, I just didn't realise it had kicked in yet

Can anyone shed some light on these revolutionary prices?

:emote_headwall:

Conrad,

I have been following this thread as someone interested in other people hiring out kit in my neck of the woods, North of England roughly. I have been thinking about what you charge and Jeff's response to it. I sort of agree with Jeff as your business model / way of operating seems to undermine our models / way of operating. Although Jeff has a hire house and I rent to productions who use my services but on what seems to be a greater level of gear and service than you. Basically, what you charge is in danger of making what we charge seem excessive. The danger is that it could cheapen the perspective of the marketplace.

However I sort of get what you are doing as well. You have invested and are using that investment as you see fit and get what you feel to be a just reward from it. I also assume that up to this point it made sense. That is until you found out that Red charge £185 for a faulty part in a drive. I think that the opportunity that you have to get kit out as cheap as you do and offer such great quality to your clients has been afforded you by the low cost of your camera. This is a very small price to pay to keep it going. I assume you received it almost 4 years ago!

I think that the real problem with your post is not one of what you charge, but that you champion the fact that you charge prices that are 'quite frankly revolutionary' but complain what it costs you to do so! The same company that made this possible for four years now makes you feel that (no-one) 'has your back'? Can I ask whether you have opted for Stage 2 or for Stage 3? If the latter then you will be happy to be getting the rebate on your initial investment and putting it towards a brand new camera? Is this the 'one step forward and one step back'? I know plenty of other people in this industry that are presently using their 435's, 535's, Aatons and SR3's as paperweights and door stops. There is a much used Latin phrase 'Caveat Emptor'. A red drive has just sold for $300 on Reduser BTW, there are other options, or make the switch to SSD's?

I'm not trying to criticise but hopefully just to say, as much as you feel it was expensive for the replacement there is another view of this. Now, how much are you going to charge for that Epic X? I may just need another occasionally! :drool:

Cheers,


Mike C

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

I'm not in the rental business, so I can't really speak to the 'too cheap' or 'fair' part of the discussion - I'm out of my depth when it comes to pricing structures of that industry, (and happily so).

BUT what I would say is this - something can only be overpriced if you can find the same thing elsewhere. If milk cost £2 at one shop and £8 at another - its clear which is overpriced - milk is milk..
Is there someone else repairing red-drives at a drastically cheaper rate? As the OP pointed out, labour and shipping are reasonable (and last time I had a camera repaired - although it was a JVC - this was roughly what the labour and shipping cost)

 

[Anthony Gratl]

He's discussing the cost of repairing a drive not rental pricing.
And I don't believe his complaint about the cost of repair is related to his pricing model. It's actually related to the 'modern' idea of throwing out what doesn't work and buying a new one instead of fixing it.
IOW, it's cheaper to buy a new one then to fix the old one. How can this possibly be? And I think that's his real question. And it's a fair one. Has nothing to do with rental rates.

On the rental pricing dicussion front:
However, at 150 pounds a day, and assuming he's rented out every week, he's making at least 20000 pounds a year. This is an excellent return on investment in my opinion. More importantly, it also keeps the young filmmakers creating (remember the idea about keeping an industry going through new ideas and creativity?), and obviously keeps him alive. I'm constantly amazed that people think charging upwards of a thousand bucks a day for kit worth 35 thousand dollars is a reasonable idea.
Frankly this extension of art that we now call an "industry" continues to live in dreamland. Nowhere that I'm aware of can you rent an item for 5% of its value in one day, and think that it's 'fair'.
Notice how many people on this forum say "camera's paid for itself many times over already" ?
There is a reason that film co-ops started up, and it's not because artists love working in groups and having meetings.

 

[Craig Schober]

He's discussing the cost of repairing a drive not rental pricing.
And I don't believe his complaint about the cost of repair is related to his pricing model. It's actually related to the 'modern' idea of throwing out what doesn't work and buying a new one instead of fixing it.
IOW, it's cheaper to buy a new one then to fix the old one. How can this possibly be? And I think that's his real question. And it's a fair one. Has nothing to do with rental rates.

On the rental pricing dicussion front:
However, at 150 pounds a day, and assuming he's rented out every week, he's making at least 20000 pounds a year. This is an excellent return on investment in my opinion. More importantly, it also keeps the young filmmakers creating (remember the idea about keeping an industry going through new ideas and creativity?), and obviously keeps him alive. I'm constantly amazed that people think charging upwards of a thousand bucks a day for kit worth 35 thousand dollars is a reasonable idea.
Frankly this extension of art that we now call an "industry" continues to live in dreamland. Nowhere that I'm aware of can you rent an item for 5% of its value in one day, and think that it's 'fair'.
Notice how many people on this forum say "camera's paid for itself many times over already" ?
There is a reason that film co-ops started up, and it's not because artists love working in groups and having meetings.

If he's renting his drive out every week, it's a miracle it's lasted this long. This is why his question relates to his rates. That and the fact that he brought it up in the first place.

And since when do you (the rentee) decide what's fair? It's a balance between the renter and rentee. That's the fair market value. That's supply and demand which is exactly how Red sets their prices for repair and replacement. If we can charge what we want without having to answer for it, why can't Red do the same? Let the market speak. Not your wallets or agendas or your territories.

 

[conrad gaunt]

Conrad,
'quite frankly revolutionary' but complain what it costs you to do so!

Is a dig at Red for overpricing. I don't feel my prices are revolutionary, but thats how Red sold themselves.. and compared to some companies they may be right.. but my point is.. do better, faster

If you have a lot of cash, its a great revolution.

My pricing is based on the marginal utility I perceive from clients, and realistic costs.

I think I'm entitled to complain when I feel a price out of my control isn't realistic. Whether that makes a difference is another matter..

Aren't we all entitled to know what replacement parts will cost before we invest?..

.. I'm sure several fanboys are on reds back right now asking for a published list on the forum or elsewhere to help intelligent decision making.. lol

Also, not everybody pays my bottom rates, some people have insisted on paying extra (normally when a large multi-national is picking up the bill.. but not always) .. options

 

[conrad gaunt]

He's discussing the cost of repairing a drive not rental pricing.
And I don't believe his complaint about the cost of repair is related to his pricing model. It's actually related to the 'modern' idea of throwing out what doesn't work and buying a new one instead of fixing it.
IOW, it's cheaper to buy a new one then to fix the old one. How can this possibly be? And I think that's his real question. And it's a fair one. Has nothing to do with rental rates.

On the rental pricing dicussion front:
However, at 150 pounds a day, and assuming he's rented out every week, he's making at least 20000 pounds a year. This is an excellent return on investment in my opinion. More importantly, it also keeps the young filmmakers creating (remember the idea about keeping an industry going through new ideas and creativity?), and obviously keeps him alive. I'm constantly amazed that people think charging upwards of a thousand bucks a day for kit worth 35 thousand dollars is a reasonable idea.
Frankly this extension of art that we now call an "industry" continues to live in dreamland. Nowhere that I'm aware of can you rent an item for 5% of its value in one day, and think that it's 'fair'.
Notice how many people on this forum say "camera's paid for itself many times over already" ?
There is a reason that film co-ops started up, and it's not because artists love working in groups and having meetings.

thankyou, you nailed it ..

£150 is client picks up and returns price. I deliver to London for £250, sometimes sleep in a car to bridge two jobs spanning three days etc .. I see my clients struggle to get what they need together.. I doubt I even meet them half way.. and as for the unpaid crews that I see week in week out..

The red drives have had their internals changed over the years .. the main board was more expensive than a disk replacement if I remember correctly.. we live in a disposable world, I doubt its a good policy going forward

 

[conrad gaunt]

Good luck to you sir.

I don't believe in the concept of luck, if it exists its surely amoral?