RAVEN vs SCARLET/EPIC

[Hugh Scully]

Scarlet Dragon was the entry level camera, the least expensive option, and now there's a less expensive entry level camera. I don't think it's any great leap of deduction to assume that this should effect the sales of new Scarlet Dragons. It doesn't say anything about their value. Rejoice happy Raven depositors!

 

[Brian Merlen]

i think there is enough product diffraction here, certainly for epic dragon/weapon... and dragons all have something coming to them still if we wait supposedly so we will see how they move us all over to the same body form factor one day i guess?

 

[Leroy Jackson]

Yeah whatever lol. The Raven will totally annihilate the Scarlet Dragon. I own a Scarlet Dragon AND a Epic Dragon and there's no way on Gods green earth
I would have picked up the scarlet dragon if the Raven would have been available. NO WAY. Look at the price points for starters. Also I was about to sale my Scarlet Dragon and every single interested party backed out BECAUSE of the Raven. Now I'm not mad at all, wasn't really a "I gotta sell this dam thing" moment but for me the market has already spoken and I don't blame them one bit. People talk about s35mm and 5k res..... lmao ...it's good and all but we are talking about LOW to Med-low budgets here. People shooting with canon glass. U get a whole dang camera for under 10K thats HALF of what the Scarlet Dragon is and you get tons more functionality.

 

[Leroy Jackson]

i think there is enough product diffraction here, certainly for epic dragon/weapon... and dragons all have something coming to them still if we wait supposedly so we will see how they move us all over to the same body form factor one day i guess?

Something coming???? Yeah like what? Built in wi-fi, cooler running, 4k@120fps??
Ohhhhh There gonna give us ProRes got it. lmao.
There still great cameras don't get me wrong. But man this is a hard bullet to swallow even for me.
I know where comparing a 8.8mp sensor to a 19mp sensor...... BUT DAM lol.

 

[Leroy Jackson]

Guess we will see when they release some footage and R3d files.

 

[Irene Valle Luna]

+1!!!

 

[Irene Valle Luna]

At the moment, I'm thinking of upgrading from the MX Scarlet to the MX Epic. How does everyone feel towards the Raven vs the MX Epic. Is it a drastic difference, or is it still worth jumping to the MX Epic ? I still think theres a advantage with the Epic, shoots in 5K at 100+ frames, and even more at 4k, interchangeable lens mount, and ect.

I have the same question.

 

[Jacob Callaghan]

I have the same question.

Depends on what your shooting. I think for a big budget shoot the epic mx will be a better choce than raven. Although you dont get the new sensor you still get a phenomenal sensor. But what you gain is freedom. Your able to use any popular lens system in the professional world. You have the option to use the motion mount which is great especially if you need a global shutter. You get alot better compression and resolution. It all depends on what your shooting. I shoot action sports primarily and i will be selling my epic mx for the raven. The light wight compact form of the raven is worth it alone for me. I dont ever use anything other than ef mount either. The biggest thing i am going to miss from my epic is the sensor size (action sports requires specialty wide angle shots all the time) and ability to use the motion mount.

 

[Brian Merlen]

Something coming???? Yeah like what? Built in wi-fi, cooler running, 4k@120fps??
Ohhhhh There gonna give us ProRes got it. lmao.
There still great cameras don't get me wrong. But man this is a hard bullet to swallow even for me.
I know where comparing a 8.8mp sensor to a 19mp sensor...... BUT DAM lol.

well I'm not sure if they will unify the DSMC1 line with 2 before a new sensor or during, but we were told dragon is not in fact EOL and that raven/weapon are new lines...so i assume one day they unify the form factors/media/accessories but as to how they go about doing it with dsmc1 that remains the hidden part... id much rather go to a new sensor/body at the same time then pour money into a new body alone on my barely over one year old camera anyway... seems more cost effective to do the next roll out at once but then were stuck with all these accessories not matching between tiers for now... I'm signed up for weapon and raven just sitting around waiting...

for me autoblackshades+prores+3d LUTs+wifi control+vista sensor it makes the deal seam better...if i didn't go vista id probably save the cash and keep dragon though, or at least consider that more

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

Cross posting this. We have two threads about the same thing?

The lineup will need to change.

Raven is RED's newest camera. Their most recent statement. It's a really good starting camera, or B camera/drone/gimbal for those who got beefier REDs.

Weapon carbon makes sense. Not sure both flavours make sense, but a carbon Weapon that's all that RED can be: most power, most features, as light as possible... It's for businesses doing well, rental shops and so own. Everyone who wants a Weapon Dragon really wants this.

And then there is Scarlet. A gift. A promise. Good enough of everything, but not too much of anything. Priced within reach of owner operators, small businesses and the indie crowd.

This Scarlet already exists in the current lineup: it's actually the Weapon Magnesium—but it isn't configured properly. It's too powerful and too expensive. It should be aluminium and probably not do as many fps at higher frame rates in order to not clash with the carbon versions.

RED: here's your lineup for 2016. (You're welcome =)

Raven $5950
Weapon aluminum (6k15, 5k60, 4k120) $15990 <--- massage this down to $12990
Weapon Carbon. RED's best. $49500.
Weapon Carbon Forged. Same as above, just forged. For people who don't know what to do with their money, or just need more bling in their lives. $59500

Redusers: put on your BigBoy-pants[SUP]tm[/SUP] and kiss your trade-ins goodbye. See privately and contribute to widening the user base. (just listen to the sound of forum whining fading away).

 

[Michael Tiemann]

Cross posting this. We have two threads about the same thing?

Probably my fault for not reading deeply enough before I started that second thread.

The lineup will need to change.

Raven is RED's newest camera. Their most recent statement. It's a really good starting camera, or B camera/drone/gimbal for those who got beefier REDs.

Weapon carbon makes sense. Not sure both flavours make sense, but a carbon Weapon that's all that RED can be: most power, most features, as light as possible... It's for businesses doing well, rental shops and so own. Everyone who wants a Weapon Dragon really wants this.

And then there is Scarlet. A gift. A promise. Good enough of everything, but not too much of anything. Priced within reach of owner operators, small businesses and the indie crowd.

This Scarlet already exists in the current lineup: it's actually the Weapon Magnesium—but it isn't configured properly. It's too powerful and too expensive. It should be aluminium and probably not do as many fps at higher frame rates in order to not clash with the carbon versions.

RED: here's your lineup for 2016. (You're welcome =)

Raven $5950
Weapon aluminum (6k15, 5k60, 4k120) $15990 <--- massage this down to $12990
Weapon Carbon. RED's best. $49500.
Weapon Carbon Forged. Same as above, just forged. For people who don't know what to do with their money, or just need more bling in their lives. $59500

Redusers: put on your BigBoy-pantstm and kiss your trade-ins goodbye. See privately and contribute to widening the user base. (just listen to the sound of forum whining fading away).

Anders, I think you're missing an important detail: to handle 8K you need a *beast* of a processor, hence CF. If you don't need that beast, MG gives you a super-powerful 4K-5K-6K solution. I'm with the camp that was not expecting MG to be priced as high as it was, but it is what it is. Weapon AL (as described above, but with 6K24 @ 8:1) is a good, entry-level 4K-5K-6K solution, with aggressive pricing for not-quite-so-aggressive HFR capabilities. Put another way, I think there's too large a gap between $13K and $50K and MG fills that gap (albeit higher than I would have expected).

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

I think you're missing an important detail: to handle 8K you need a *beast* of a processor, hence CF. If you don't need that beast, MG gives you a super-powerful 4K-5K-6K solution. I'm with the camp that was not expecting MG to be priced as high as it was, but it is what it is. Weapon AL (as described above, but with 6K24 @ 8:1) is a good, entry-level 4K-5K-6K solution, with aggressive pricing for not-quite-so-aggressive HFR capabilities. Put another way, I think there's too large a gap between $13K and $50K and MG fills that gap (albeit higher than I would have expected).

Admittedly, I'm not considering 8k as much at this point. It's still future, or at least another upgrade…

I see it like this: above a certain price point there's some sort of financing involved. You cover that with your commercial activities. I'm not sure who would spend $35000 and not get the better camera for $45000. Especially when the better model might be the more "famous" one that gets you rental or jobs.

There has to be however, what someone here called the Goldilocks model: a camera you can buy and use commercially, but perhaps on a project to project basis, without needing a fully booked schedule to make sense. A clear step above the entry level Raven (that rocks, but sacrifices some flexibility due to smaller sensor and strict 4k). It would be REALLY interesting to see what RED would like to offer for twice the price.… $5950 gets you Raven… $11900 gets you…?

 

[Michael Tiemann]

Admittedly, I'm not considering 8k as much at this point. It's still future, or at least another upgrade…

I bet a dollar I'll post an R3D file from my CF 8K WEAPON before anybody else can post an R3D file from their 4K RED RAVEN. (Offer does not include RED TEAM members or Moderators.)

I see it like this: above a certain price point there's some sort of financing involved. You cover that with your commercial activities. I'm not sure who would spend $35000 and not get the better camera for $45000. Especially when the better model might be the more "famous" one that gets you rental or jobs.

Well, the logic breaks down in several ways. First, I'm paying cash for my CF WEAPON. Second, I didn't shell out an extra $10,000 for FC (Forged Carbon). I've got nothing against others doing so, but I'm good with whatever tool does the job. I've got an EPIC DRAGON and a SCARLET DRAGON. The EPIC gives me great 6K images and HFR. The SCARLET hangs back and delivers great S35 images from lenses that don't cover 6K and never will. Nobody questions the SCARLET DRAGON--it does its job and the results speak for themselves.

There has to be however, what someone here called the Goldilocks model: a camera you can buy and use commercially, but perhaps on a project to project basis, without needing a fully booked schedule to make sense. A clear step above the entry level Raven (that rocks, but sacrifices some flexibility due to smaller sensor and strict 4k). It would be REALLY interesting to see what RED would like to offer for twice the price.… $5950 gets you Raven… $11900 gets you…?

Goldilocks for whom? For some, $12K is the goldilocks price. For others, 6K is the Goldilocks resolution. For still others, 120 fps is the Goldilocks frame rate. Decisions, decisions!

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

Michael, suffice it to say: you've got way too many REDs! Fork one over!!

 

[Ryan Rossman]

Michael, suffice it to say: you've got way too many REDs! Fork one over!!

I happen to be a Raven pre-order switcher to Scarlet-W. It happens to now be my 32nd birthday (12:38am), and of course I am sipping on some whiskey and reading the forums because I've been obsessed with my Scarlet-W allocation… but, I still can't get passed how great of a deal the Raven is. I'm comfortable and excited that I switched my pre-order to a scarlet-W. I've shot projects on the Epic Dragon, and our studio owns an Epic MX… and I've realized how great and opportunity people are getting with the Raven. I switched to the Scarlet-W because I know the extra flexibility could offer me some creative freedom in the future, BUT, thinking about price points and what it takes to own one of these cameras, it's gonna come down to whoever is holding the tool will make the most compelling images. I'm sure the Ravens out there will throw up some badass work that will rival every other camera out there.

…
From a drunk Scarlet-W investor waiting for allocation on his birthday...

#MERICA

 

[Darryl Harris]

I happen to be a Raven pre-order switcher to Scarlet-W. It happens to now be my 32nd birthday (12:38am), and of course I am sipping on some whiskey and reading the forums because I've been obsessed with my Scarlet-W allocation… but, I still can't get passed how great of a deal the Raven is. I'm comfortable and excited that I switched my pre-order to a scarlet-W. I've shot projects on the Epic Dragon, and our studio owns an Epic MX… and I've realized how great and opportunity people are getting with the Raven. I switched to the Scarlet-W because I know the extra flexibility could offer me some creative freedom in the future, BUT, thinking about price points and what it takes to own one of these cameras, it's gonna come down to whoever is holding the tool will make the most compelling images. I'm sure the Ravens out there will throw up some badass work that will rival every other camera out there.

…
From a drunk Scarlet-W investor waiting for allocation on his birthday...

#MERICA

Happy Birthday man, thanks for the excitement at 1:44am thinking about Raven and joining the Red team. When Scarlet W was announced while still happy with the Raven, I did start to try and crunch numbers to see if I could reach for the Scarlet W, and after the numbers not adding up I was a little disappointed.

I do know I'm getting a beast of a camera and it just feels good to hear it again from outside my own head, especially from a Scarlet W preorder and someone who is experienced with other cameras from Reds line up. Wish you the best w/ your Scarlet W, hope it arrives soon, and cheers! I'll be drinking Hennessy when my allocation is getting close, hope your drinking Jameson though!

 

[Ryan Rossman]

Heck yea Darryl! Thanks man. Good stuff on the horizon for all of us!