Pretty bummed by the lack of audio. . .

[Alexander Thomson]

Note that if the camera mic sync is wrong, then the newly-added multitrack audio's sync will also be wrong. Don't assume it's going to be right. The stick clap is the real evidence of sound sync, because it shows the relationship between picture and sound.

Absolutely. And yeah, that's if the production even bothers to slate in the first place.

The formality of having a slate at the beginning of every take may be a slight inconvenience to the production crew, but it saves exponentially more time in post. Dual system sound may take more time in post, but it will greatly enhance the audio quality of the finished product. For some (many) low to mid budget productions, it's not worth it.

Oh well.

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

You guys must have the ears of bats. Even listening hard, I can only under the most extreme conditions hear the difference between a line-in to the camera and a file recorded directly to our 788T. As such, we almost never use the files recorded to the 788T. They are there for emergencies only. As for slating, unless we aren't able to get line-in audio into our cameras, I consider it a total waste of time and will never do it again. Any information on the slate can be recorded with virtually no effort by a good script supervisor during production (which is exactly what we do).

What I DO consider essential is a gray card version of every single shot.

Stephen

 

[Prahlad Strickland]

For gigs that are recorded seperately to a standalone audio recorder. And time code sync between camera / recorder, there is not much time syncing in this situation since Avid can automatically batch sync clips to their respective audio files with a click of a button.

Best is to not feed any audio to camera and sync in post with batch... Only thing to keep an eye on is the Green TC indicator on the Red screen. For me, I have a Nomad that feeds an ERX so I have scratch audio / TC. But generally don't even plug the audio in, as it's an extra step in post to get rid of the scratch track.

 

[Richard Williams]

If you have a wooden camera A box plugged into the I/O expander on the Raven. Can you control audio levels through the 4.7 Red LCD touch screen?

 

[Prahlad Strickland]

I would guess for sure you can.

If i'm not mistaken it's a stereo input?,

If so... the A box would not work as it is 2 channels over 2 seperate XLR / mini jack connectors.

Would have to be a modified A-box if so.

 

[Bob Gundu]

I would guess for sure you can.

If i'm not mistaken it's a stereo input?,

If so... the A box would not work as it is 2 channels over 2 seperate XLR / mini jack connectors.

Would have to be a modified A-box if so.

Why wouldn't a Y-Adapter that takes two mono into a stereo jack work? I'm pretty sure it would.

 

[Prahlad Strickland]

Why wouldn't a Y-Adapter that takes two mono into a stereo jack work? I'm pretty sure it would.

It might....

But it might not, the A box is dual balanced XLR down to dual mini's... maybe it would?, depends on it's wiring, if the wiring is off it will cause cancelling.

 

[Richard Williams]

Why wouldn't a Y-Adapter that takes two mono into a stereo jack work? I'm pretty sure it would.

Thanks Bob
This makes sense and should work.
As long as you can control audio levels via the 4.7 touch screen, you still have the flexibility to record audio if there is no budget for a sound recordist.

 

[Richard Williams]

It might....

But it might not, the A box is dual balanced XLR down to dual mini's... maybe it would?, depends on it's wiring, if the wiring is off it will cause cancelling.

I suppose worst case scenario is that you can only use one XLR port. Do other suppliers make something that would be suitable - Beachtek for example?

 

[Bob Gundu]

The pre amps in the Red cameras aren't the greatest. Increasing the gain in camera really isn't advised. That said, you can get very nice audio into the camera from a good preamp. I use the Sound Devices 302. Without this, its just OK as a guide track. The OMOD is another option if an external pre-amp isn't doable. Also, note that weapon doesn't seem to have phantom power either.

 

[Richard Williams]

The pre amps in the Red cameras aren't the greatest. Increasing the gain in camera really isn't advised. That said, you can get very nice audio into the camera from a good preamp. I use the Sound Devices 302. Without this, its just OK as a guide track. The OMOD is another option if an external pre-amp isn't doable. Also, note that weapon doesn't seem to have phantom power either.

Good advise Bob, the Sound Devices 302 costs less than an XLR audio module and will probably do the job better. I will probably just go with the A box initially and hopefully be able to afford a sound recordist when audio is important.

 

[Chunwoo Kae]

dfdf

 

[Nathan DuMoulin]

dfdf

Amazing first post. Welcome to the forum.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Good advise Bob, the Sound Devices 302 costs less than an XLR audio module and will probably do the job better. I will probably just go with the A box initially and hopefully be able to afford a sound recordist when audio is important.

You can find used ones for about $1000.

 

[Marc Wielage]

The formality of having a slate at the beginning of every take may be a slight inconvenience to the production crew, but it saves exponentially more time in post. Dual system sound may take more time in post, but it will greatly enhance the audio quality of the finished product. For some (many) low to mid budget productions, it's not worth it.

I think you can make a good case that the ritual of the slate brings some order and routine to the set (at least for scripted shows) because it alerts everybody that a new shot is coming up, everybody quiets down, and the actors have a moment to prepare themselves as the cameras start to roll. It's not necessarily a drawback -- the slate kind of gets everybody into the rhythm of getting set up, rolling, slating, doing the scene, then cutting. Once you do it a few hundreds times in a row, it's second-nature.

The other advantage is the editor and post crew now have a visible identifier at the beginning of the shot so they know exactly what it is. Assuming the sound department is doing their job, they should likewise put an audible​ identifier at the beginning of the shot prior to the slate, which is good to have in cases where the slate wasn't there, or it's a wild track, or the timecode goes bad, or the camera is running off-speed.

I have seen some real trainwrecks in post where the camera operator "believed" the audio coming into the camera was good, only it wasn't... and nobody had a copy of the audio recorded on another device. To me, the only thing camera audio should be used for is a vague reference for editorial and nothing else. Having the slate on camera, matching timecode on sound & picture, and good audio levels is one of those "Film 101" things that everybody should be doing 100% of the time. Without all this, it'll really bite you in the ass in post.

 

[Alexander Thomson]

I think you can make a good case that the ritual of the slate brings some order and routine to the set (at least for scripted shows) because it alerts everybody that a new shot is coming up, everybody quiets down, and the actors have a moment to prepare themselves as the cameras start to roll. It's not necessarily a drawback -- the slate kind of gets everybody into the rhythm of getting set up, rolling, slating, doing the scene, then cutting. Once you do it a few hundreds times in a row, it's second-nature.
...

I agree with everything you've said. I believe in the ritual of the slate, the rhythm, and the general "okay shut up we're rolling" feeling everyone gets when it's time to shoot a scene. This is one of those things where I feel it's better to "do it the way it's always been done." After all, there's a reason the slate has stuck around when arguably it's not strictly necessary on many productions from a sync standpoint.

 

[Howard Kan]

What about using a zoom h4n connected via 1/4in input to the base expander module?

 

[Brice LeCarre]

What about using a zoom h4n connected via 1/4in input to the base expander module?

If you are going this route, I would upgrade to the h6 or h5